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Jozrael
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Post by Jozrael » December 13th, 2007, 7:27 am

Ah, I understand both points now. I still want to emphasize the first, but perhaps I was drunk when I read the second. The meaning seems obviously clear now. Thank you xD.

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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » December 13th, 2007, 1:36 pm

Shammah speaks the truth for the most part.

However, he is underestimating slow--I'd say that GP>GK unless you think that you can get the knight upgraded before it dies. You can expect GK's to just get missiled to death...

The Pillager, like the jav, rocklobber is a mixed unit, with both ranged and melee. However, if you couple slow and the pillager's movement, it becomes great for several things:

1. Engaging enemy scouts, skirmishers--slow them, and they become weaker infantry for a turn. If you 1/2 their moves, your normal units will be able to push them around.

2.Quickly reinforcing different fronts.

3. With its uncommon damage types, it fills a niche that the knight can't. The knight is simply a faster grunt, dealing blade damage. The only people this doesn't help is drakes, and I'd still say have one for the slow ability.

4. Its speed+the fact that people realize it isn't an 'up in your face' fighter means it will survive longer. hit, run, heal, repeat. Or hit, hit,hit, run, heal. The kinght can do this, but the fact that it is vulnerable to ranged attacks, and it just seem strong makes it more likely to be kept out too long, as well as more likely to be targeted sucessfully by your opponent.

regarding the rider "hard to level" concern--if you can't feed the kills to your units, learn to play better ^__^ especially when playing 70% xp needed. I mean, come on....

Troll Rocklobber has been discussed to death, as has lancer (obvious reasons), and jav. Of these, the only I dislike is the javalineer. But I see its use, regardless
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Weeksy
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Post by Weeksy » December 13th, 2007, 6:59 pm

I don't like javs either. Their armor just looks ridiculous.
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Dodgy Tactician
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Post by Dodgy Tactician » December 16th, 2007, 12:17 am

4. Its speed+the fact that people realize it isn't an 'up in your face' fighter means it will survive longer. hit, run, heal, repeat. Or hit, hit,hit, run, heal. The kinght can do this, but the fact that it is vulnerable to ranged attacks, and it just seem strong makes it more likely to be kept out too long, as well as more likely to be targeted sucessfully by your opponent.
A Goblin Knight's lack of a ranged attack can be used as an advantage. It can be used at night (preferably First Watch) to do some damage and draw out the enemy ranged units to be hit the next turn by your grunts. There's a good chance of sacrificing it, but against an unwary player (or AI) the sacrifice can pay off. It may fall flat too, but it's a good gambit for out-psyching people.

Also, if you can upgrade to the Direwolf Rider, the large movement and poison make a great combination, perfect for getting in and poisoning enemy healers and/or magi.

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Post by joshudson » January 2nd, 2008, 5:51 pm

I've had a beserker AMLA in an MP game (70% xp) before.

Of course by that time the game was close enough to me winning that having a L3 or not wouldn't have changed the outcome.
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CarpeGuitarrem
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Post by CarpeGuitarrem » January 2nd, 2008, 7:12 pm

Nice post, Shammah. Although part of the reason you settle for units like the Swordsman or Knight is that you can level them up. And Knights become Paladins (potentially), which can be handy against those zombie dudes...
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Xandria
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Post by Xandria » January 3rd, 2008, 8:43 am

Well - the issue with outlaws has been solved now :)
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Mabuse
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Post by Mabuse » January 3rd, 2008, 10:44 am

Weeksy wrote:I don't like javs either. Their armor just looks ridiculous.
depends on situation.

javeliners are good if your upgraded unit is threatened by ranged units (or if enemy has lots of ranged units), so in these situations i always grade up to javelineer, and voila, in most cases the enemy seeks another target (or his aggressors are left heavily damaged) :D

in any case i find it quite useful

Raemon
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Post by Raemon » January 5th, 2008, 10:03 pm

That doesn't make their armour look any better. :p
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Federalist marshal
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Post by Federalist marshal » January 6th, 2008, 12:31 am

Javelineers are fairly powerful for a level 2 unit, in my opinion. If used right, I'm sure they can stand against many level 3 units. And what's wrong with their armor?

Martinus
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Post by Martinus » January 6th, 2008, 3:23 pm

The problem is probably that Longbowman can be effectively used at the same role as Javelineer so it's not really worth sacrificing sheer melee damage and hp of Swordsman or Pikeman. Though I use Javelineers ocassionaly.

Raemon
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Post by Raemon » January 6th, 2008, 4:58 pm

In my opinion the Javelineer is a perfectly good level 2 unit. It's annoying that it doesn't get a level 2[EDIT: 3], and I can't really see why, but in itself it's fine.

And I just don't like the colour.
Last edited by Raemon on January 6th, 2008, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dodgy Tactician
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Post by Dodgy Tactician » January 6th, 2008, 5:45 pm

The problem is probably that Longbowman can be effectively used at the same role as Javelineer so it's not really worth sacrificing sheer melee damage and hp of Swordsman or Pikeman. Though I use Javelineers ocassionaly.
Javelineers have 40% pierce resistance, unlike Longbowmen. They also have a much greater melee attack and more importantly a greater melee defence, particularly against an injured archer's nemesis - Horsemen.

Javelineers' usage is partially covered by both Pikemen and Longbowmen, but without some of the weaknesses. Playing as Drakes for example, I would attack Pikemen at range (Burners and Augurs for preference) and attack Longbowmen in melee (Fighters, Clashers and Skirmishers for preference). Javelineers are strong against Fighters and Burners, reasonable against Clashers and Skirmishers and has a retaliation at least against the relatively low HP Augurs. While they are slightly weaker offensively, they are far stronger defensively, so they are definitely worth using.

It's all a case of how you play. There are a variety of playing styles that you can utilise with the available troops and your use (or not) of any unit is purely down to your personal preference. I personally think that Javelineers have a role to play in certain situations, so I attempt to use them in those situations. However, they can also be useless in other situations, so I generally avoid them in those situations.

A few months ago, I was trying to get a level 3 Javelineer working with the same attack and only a few more HP, but 10% better defence, one greater movement and skirmisher with the intention of making it a light screening unit which is particularly good at dealing with Horsemen. Due to my WML incompetence, it never really worked properly though and I forgot to back it up when I got a new version.[/quote]

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Federalist marshal
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Post by Federalist marshal » January 6th, 2008, 7:56 pm

Well, the javelineer also has a ranged attack, which the bulk of loyalist units don't. Doesn't that count for something?

energyman76c
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Post by energyman76c » January 11th, 2008, 4:50 am

First: I only play campaigns and no multiplayer.

In this campaigns are usually try to get at one Lancer - but the first Horseman leveling is always a Knight. You just need a robust unit that is fast AND can take some damage while dealing out some. Usually in the later stages I have three to four lvl 3 horseman units (grand knight or paladin depends on the campaign but always at least one paladin - most of the time 2 paladins for every gk) and one Lancer.

One Lancer is way enough to spread some chaos and kill some lvl1 reinforcements on their way. More is usually not really usefull. Lancers are just too easily killed to invest to much into them. So one lancer yes, two lancers only if I had luck and an army of paladins already.

Javeliers: I only level a Spearmen to a Jav if I got a couple of Swordsmen/Pikemen already. Their lack of lvl3 and low hp makes them too vulnerable in most later campaign-scenarios. You don't need a Jav to weaken/kill the troll - that the lvl3 Mage's job. You don't need a Jav to weaken/kill the Griphon or Drake - that is the job of the lvl2/3 bowman.

Rocklobbers: these guys are great. Their damage makes mages, poachers and bowmans think twice before an attack. They can also weaken melee units before the troll horde sweeps in and crashes them. Sweet. Perfect to hold a stronghold until the reserves arrive.

Berserks: I don't miss a lvl3 option there - I could even go without lvl2. Their job is to weaken strong units or to create breaches. Usefull but 'throw away units'.

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