Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

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Dragonking
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Post by Dragonking »

Beholder wrote:Ok, see what you think.
I can write what I think.

First game: As drake player said: "he is still learning the drakes" and "he just tried the saurian strategy" and that he won't do this again. He made few bad positioning mistakes for example making saurians fight on a open ground against spearmans - you won because you are more skilled that him.

Second game: I just want to say: (no offence intended) Burner-noob. He builded offensive burners forces and forced them to play as a defense.. so sorry, no use. Again you win by skill.

Third one: Guy just allows you to take his land villages "for free" so I wonder if he surrendered from the begining.. also he is running with core of his troops from side to side without much thinking in my opinion. Yes, he got some "quick" units, but same goes if we talk about loyalists - so why was he so scared? Again you win by skill IMO

So what does these replays prove? That you are good loyalist player who is winning against weaker players, and, because of that, you think that there is something wrong with a drake-loy relationship. Only problem I aknowledge is that there is (sometimes) this traits issue on 1.2.6 which still isn't IMO the deciding factor in the battle.

I ask you to play agaisnt some experienced players (experienced- let me tell that again because everyone else is telling that to you but you still don't bring replayS from gameS agaisnt EXPERIENCED players).

Also I think you have skill to win against experienced player - because you are quite good and everyone can make a mistake. But if you will win say 5 (10?) games in a row against different players aknowledged as a experienced ones we may think that this is issue with balancing.

You may ask "Whoa 10? Who would want to play this many times just to prove loy-drake is unblanced?" We do - and blancing was and always will be a long process.
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Gallifax
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Re: Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Gallifax »

Beholder wrote:Ok, time to take out the silk gloves and get it rough.

I challenge anyone to beat me using Drakes with me using Loyalists. Results and replays will be posted here with some comments.

Look for DragonSlayer on the multiplayer server, bring your best and give me your worst.

Cya in the field.
Hello Beholder,

you want to proof that you can beat anyone anytime with Drakes.


But what you do is asking people to look for Dragonslayer but dont have enough courage to do so. You hide behind an alias in your first match;)



You wanted to chellenge anyone? Well That would include Soliton, Dragonking, Pietro.


All your replays proof that you can beat noobs on an imbalanced map(Sorry Doc;)) for this certain matchup.

If you want to prove you are good , you shall do it vs good players and on a balanced map for this matchups. That means not Blitz as it is on 1.2...

If you want to turn my pitty fr you into respect send some real prove. You would also earn respect by admitting that you were wrong.

Then you might be ready to learn:)

So long and best regards Gallifax

Velensk
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Post by Velensk »

What were you tring to prove beating that guy, it's like saying that northeners always beat rebles when the reble player is a first timer and the northerner player is experianced.
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Doc Paterson »

Gallifax wrote:[All your replays proof that you can beat noobs on an imbalanced map(Sorry Doc;)) for this certain matchup.
Hey, no secret there. The balancing of Blitz has been a long and difficult process. At least we identified the merman/drake problem (a long while ago, but he's playing 1.2 where it still exists), and fixed it.

Prediction: Higher Game will not bring us so much as one 1.3x replay against anyone on that list.

I'll be taking your bets....
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Sombra
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Post by Sombra »

:cry: How I miss Higher Game.

@Beholder at what time are you usally playing. As Gallifax said you should challenge some of the MP developers: Pietro, Dragonking, Soliton, Noy. Not only is it the easiest way to convince the right people to change the balance of Wesnoth , they are simply in the group (or the group, clan, gang :P ) of the best Wesnoth players. If you can beat them ... you can beat us all.

Alas, till now 99% of the time they are right regarding balance issues. So you have to understand that they are not convinced / enthusiastic every time a new player thinks that a certain matchup is not balanced.

Unfortunately your other comments in this forum: "Gliders only against UD or your comments regarding the "Northerners" does not really convince me that you allready have 100%understood that different factions require different tactics.

Beholder
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Post by Beholder »

My, my... how people are agressive.

Will say it again, there is no Windows binaries for 1.3.8, 1.3.7 server is dying. The nick thing was a honest mistake. It's easy to log with your regular nick and notice it only later on the match. Believe or not, up to you.

I am no Loyalist player, I did some mistakes like falling for a house bait wih his boss near to give leadership, and should had mage sooner when I saw too many Saurians. However, every match added to the experience and would make the next fight easier.

I got frankly curious about that fine crop of gamers who can win with Drakes. This make me ponder... if I do lose to then, this means the game is balanced? Because a small % of players can win with it, this make this match up fine?

I wonder if one of the uber-player who can win Drakes decide to play with Loyalists versus that same Drakes which outcome we would have. Obviously there is some amazing trick people can push with Drakes I am totally unaware of.

Can't these said good players find a way to take advantage of all the perks Loyalists have? And if indeed, this match up is fine, can't whatever impossible [censored] Drakes are pulling be used to easily dominate the other races?

But I am humble and I ask... what that Drakes pull to win versus Loyalists? What should that "noob" players I fought made to win? Enlight me with your superior strategy.

Beholder
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Post by Beholder »

Sombra wrote::cry: How I miss Higher Game.

@Beholder at what time are you usally playing. As Gallifax said you should challenge some of the MP developers: Pietro, Dragonking, Soliton, Noy. Not only is it the easiest way to convince the right people to change the balance of Wesnoth , they are simply in the group (or the group, clan, gang :P ) of the best Wesnoth players. If you can beat them ... you can beat us all.

Alas, till now 99% of the time they are right regarding balance issues. So you have to understand that they are not convinced / enthusiastic every time a new player thinks that a certain matchup is not balanced.

Unfortunately your other comments in this forum: "Gliders only against UD or your comments regarding the "Northerners" does not really convince me that you allready have 100%understood that different factions require different tactics.
Repeat with me.

There is no Windows binaries for 1.3.8.

1.3.7 server is empty.

Gliders versus UD is another topic. I didn't started a topic saying I would beat the Wesnoth Elite with then.

If there was moderation, this would be a case of "derailing". Soon people will pull my real life profile and found I failed math at 3rd grade and all my opinions are null and void.

Sombra
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Post by Sombra »

I see we are online at the same time. If you have time we could play a game on 1.26 or 1.37

Beholder
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Re: Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Beholder »

Doc Paterson wrote:
Gallifax wrote:[All your replays proof that you can beat noobs on an imbalanced map(Sorry Doc;)) for this certain matchup.
Hey, no secret there. The balancing of Blitz has been a long and difficult process. At least we identified the merman/drake problem (a long while ago, but he's playing 1.2 where it still exists), and fixed it.

Prediction: Higher Game will not bring us so much as one 1.3x replay against anyone on that list.

I'll be taking your bets....
You guys are hilarious. First you say to not post replays with noobs.. then insist to post a replay.. any replay. Now you bicker because "ah ah, you beat then on Blitz and they sucked".

I will make my personal bet too. If I do win 5, 10, 20 matches, this won't matter because they were having a "bad day" or something. The burden of showing imbalance here is insane.

I can see a line of the Wesnoth best preparing for my matches.. first the novice, then the initiate, the experienced and last the mystical Wesnoth Grand Master.

If I manage to pull this, I'd like your dojo sign to break.

Gallifax
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Post by Gallifax »

Beholder wrote:
But I am humble and I ask... what that Drakes pull to win versus Loyalists? What should that "noob" players I fought made to win? Enlight me with your superior strategy.
To make it easy enough to understand I repeat myself:


DO show up and play vs the good players and you will get more answer than you wished for.


All we get from you is text, but no action. And thats about all the arguing I was going to do with you. Show being worth to be taken seriously by shwowing up!


So long

Beholder
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Post by Beholder »

Gallifax wrote:
Beholder wrote:
But I am humble and I ask... what that Drakes pull to win versus Loyalists? What should that "noob" players I fought made to win? Enlight me with your superior strategy.
To make it easy enough to understand I repeat myself:


DO show up and play vs the good players and you will get more answer than you wished for.


All we get from you is text, but no action. And thats about all the arguing I was going to do with you. Show being worth to be taken seriously by shwowing up!


So long
1.3.7, server empty, no windows binaries, etc.

Gallifax
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Post by Gallifax »

Beholder wrote:

1.3.7, server empty, no windows binaries, etc.

True only about 30 players there all day. We are waiting for you.


Well I just should have answered: Excuses, Excuses,Excuses, etc.

Cheers

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Post by joshudson »

I'll take him on if I ever see him online. I doubt a battle between him and me would prove much though.
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Lorbi
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Post by Lorbi »

imho drakes are the faction that affords the most skill when played on higher level. but in a match god vs god i cant see why drakes shoud be ultimately doomed against any faction.

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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

It's been said before that the drake learning curve is parabolic; meaning that when two beginners play against each other, drakes do well, but when two intermediate players play against each other, drakes are much harder to play correctly; when two pros play against each other, all factions should be equally balanced.

Balance is determined by the top players precisely because the factions are not equally easy to master. This doesn't prove anything about the present argument, but I just wanted to clear up the notion that the game would be balanced for any lower experience level... it's not.
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