Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

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Beholder
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Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Beholder »

Ok, time to take out the silk gloves and get it rough.

I challenge anyone to beat me using Drakes with me using Loyalists. Results and replays will be posted here with some comments.

Look for DragonSlayer on the multiplayer server, bring your best and give me your worst.

Cya in the field.

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Doc Paterson
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Re: Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Doc Paterson »

Beholder wrote:Ok, time to take out the silk gloves and get it rough.

I challenge anyone to beat me using Drakes with me using Loyalists. Results and replays will be posted here with some comments.

Look for DragonSlayer on the multiplayer server, bring your best and give me your worst.

Cya in the field.
I looked for you around the time of your posting this and didn't see anything.

One thing to be aware of:

If you want to talk about proving supposed problems with the game, you need to be playing the current version (that is, 1.3.7 or 1.3.8 ). I'm not saying that you weren't, as I didn't see you on either server. Just a heads-up though.

By the way, I don't think anyone wants to see this thread filled with replays of you beating noobs with Loyalists.

If, however, you show people a replay of you destroying someone on that list (posted in the other thread) with your Loys, I guarantee you we'll all take you a lot more seriously.

The truth is that the vets get tired of debating with players like you; We prove to them their error (in actual games) and they fade away, but the thing is, there's an unending supply of "Higher Games" out there, and they just keep appearing. There comes a point when you have to just let them blabber, and learn to ignore them.

So, let's see your proof of Undead being overpowered against Drakes.

Let's see your proof of Northerners being weak against Drakes.

Let's see your proof of Loyalists being overpowered against Drakes.

Get on the dev server, seek out those players, and do it.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
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Wretched Luke
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Post by Wretched Luke »

Also:

"Proof Inside?"

The box is empty. False advertising?
"No! That's not true! That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!"

Dave
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Re: Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Dave »

Doc Paterson wrote:there's an unending supply of "Higher Games" out there
Oh come now Doc, I can agree with you that there's an unending supply of players with large egos, strong opinions, much talking, and little skill out there. But there is only one Higher Game.

;-)

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming

Beholder
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Re: Drakes sucks versus Loyalists - Proof inside

Post by Beholder »

Dave wrote:
Doc Paterson wrote:there's an unending supply of "Higher Games" out there
Oh come now Doc, I can agree with you that there's an unending supply of players with large egos, strong opinions, much talking, and little skill out there. But there is only one Higher Game.

;-)

David
I said one and I said before. The Wesnoth Fan Club is the first to attack the person, not the argument.

I am yet to lose a match btw.

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Jami
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Post by Jami »

Beholder, post some replays if you want people to take you seriously. Against good players, close matchups... not easy victories.

Untill then, why should anyone bother? I mean, it's just an empty challenge.

Beholder
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Post by Beholder »

Jami wrote:Beholder, post some replays if you want people to take you seriously. Against good players, close matchups... not easy victories.

Untill then, why should anyone bother? I mean, it's just an empty challenge.
I beat some players, but didn't require the request of using the newest version, so I will download the newest version and fight some matches.

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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

Beholder wrote:
Jami wrote:Beholder, post some replays if you want people to take you seriously. Against good players, close matchups... not easy victories.

Untill then, why should anyone bother? I mean, it's just an empty challenge.
I beat some players, but didn't require the request of using the newest version, so I will download the newest version and fight some matches.
Somehow, I'm not surprised that you were talking about what the game "should be" without even having a clue about where the game is, right now.

No doubt you'll think that the small changes to the Drake faction were done because the Loy/Drake match was soooo unbalanced before, but in actuality, this concern was somewhere in between minimal and nonexistant. The primary concept behind the changes was simply this: to make the match more complex and interesting.

I'm sure though, that pointless as it is, there are plenty of us that wouldn't mind playing you on the old version. I'll repeat this:

You need to actually approach the people on that list, and ask for games, directly, when you see them on the server. Saying "Haha! Come play me or I'm proven right! Look at all of these noobs that I beat!" Is a waste of time.

So again, get on the dev server and get going.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme

joshudson
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Post by joshudson »

With my experience in 1.2.x, playing drakes against loyalists, I'm ready to believe there is a problem.

Playing on Isars Cross, I could defeat most races (including undead) with drakes more than half the time, but not against loyalists.

Part of the problem was that a single mage was sufficient to make saurians nearly useless, even at night.
CHKDSK has repaired bad sectors in CHKDSK.EXE

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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

joshudson wrote: Playing on Isars Cross, I could defeat most races (including undead) with drakes more than half the time, but not against loyalists.

Well, if you can't beat Loyalists on Isar's Cross, I guess that proves us all wrong, doesn't it?
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme

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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

I think what Doc is saying is that Isar's Cross was sort of "borderline" in the factional balance department. In older revisions, I frequently made complaints that it was unablanced against drakes.

However, Becephalus made some great improvements to it. Despite the fact that the drake's mobility strategy is essentially useless, it was felt that the sand hexes should make up for that. Maybe you have found a strategy to minimize the sand utility; I don't doubt it.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

joshudson
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Post by joshudson »

I presume you meant:
Sapient wrote:Maybe you have found a strategy to maximize the sand utility
I never could master the drake mobility strategy. I haven't had much occassion to try drakes on 1.3.x (not enough people online), but the changes should only help my strategy, which was mostly an extreme timecycle strategy combined with leadership and the fact that no terrain on the map slowed drakes down. The sand was indeed useful if my opponent tried to defend the center.

On 60% xp or lower I would try to level my leader, which was successful about half the time and would almost always turn the battle if it was. 8 kills by the fourth day is nothing.
CHKDSK has repaired bad sectors in CHKDSK.EXE

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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

No, I said what I meant.

You say that you discovered a way to make drakes lose on the map, using loyalists with mages. If true, this means you found a strategy to successfully negate their sand defenses.

Thus "minimize" :roll:

Still, what does this really prove? Are you suggesting there is a problem with the map Isar's Cross, or a problem with Loyalists vs. Drakes in general? This is what Doc is getting at by his comment. It sounds more like an Isar's Cross problem. Still, it's a really well-balanced map considering that it is based on the unusual premise of grinding four sides through a small central area (which is difficult to balance).
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

joshudson
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Post by joshudson »

I thought I said I was controlling the Drakes.

But you're right, it doesn't prove anything by itself.
CHKDSK has repaired bad sectors in CHKDSK.EXE

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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

The Proof Box is still empty I see.......
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme

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