is Saurian Skirmisher a good "troop"?

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Ultimatum479
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Post by Ultimatum479 »

Still, a Saurian Skirmisher isn't a bad troop; although given my choice I'd prefer a Fencer, not every faction has level 1 skirmishers, so Drakes do have quite a counter to Zones of Control on the IC map.
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Martinus
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Post by Martinus »

Saurian Skirmisher is a bad troop. as in my opinion troops, or fodder, should be capable of receiving damage and survivng. With his pathetic, tiny hp of 22 and pretty normal defences he ain't no better troop than most of other drakish forces, not counting augur in.
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Post by Sapient »

Martinus wrote:Saurian Skirmisher is a bad troop. as in my opinion troops, or fodder, should be capable of receiving damage and survivng. With his pathetic, tiny hp of 22 and pretty normal defences he ain't no better troop than most of other drakish forces, not counting augur in.
If you are using saurian skirmishers as grunt fodder then you better start reading the drakish strategy guides (hint: it's a scout).
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Post by Martinus »

You second what I said, just in another way;)
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Post by Xandria »

Isn't the skirmisher an assassin? Running around with his pokey spear, sticking it into a wounded unit or a wizard, tossing a spear or two here and there?
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Post by Glowing Fish »

This thread seems to be turning into yet another Talmudic discussion of units...when it was invented to be a way to actually play test claims of faction superiority. Which no one seems to have taken the original poster up on.
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Post by Herduk »

Glowing Fish wrote:This thread seems to be turning into yet another Talmudic discussion of units...when it was invented to be a way to actually play test claims of faction superiority. Which no one seems to have taken the original poster up on.
Thanks Glowing, i was starting to think that i cannot explain myself and none can understand me.
At least you understand the mean of the thread...

A moderator can close it if continue on this way?
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Post by Sapient »

Xandria wrote:Isn't the skirmisher an assassin? Running around with his pokey spear, sticking it into a wounded unit or a wizard, tossing a spear or two here and there?
I'd say an 'assassin' in Wesnoth means you are a chaotic ambush/backstabber or an evasivefoot with ranged poison, who has good movement, but may or may not be a skirmisher.

So let's see:
1) chaotic - yes
2a)i) ambush - no
2a)ii) backstab - no
2b)i) evasivefoot - no. it has pretty good defense but not quite at that level
2b)ii) poison - no. just raw pierce damage
3a) good movement - yes
3b) skirmisher - yes

So, judging by my score here it is 2/3 of an assassin. Of course if by assassination you just mean transmitting death behind the enemies defenses, then Gryphons and Silver Mages are far better qualified for the term. But, sure-- you can use saurian skirmishers for that too. I prefer calling them a scout because that Wesnoth archetype seems to be the more generally applicable one.
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Post by Yogin »

What about an ulf?

I'd consider him one of the ultimate assassins.
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Post by Kalis »

saurian skirmishers are awesome.
While their hp is low, they have an incredibly easy time leveling due to the combination of high movement, good movetype, good attack, and skirmish ability.
an intelligent one requires 16XP to level, which is exactly 2 kills.

So all they need to do is kill 1 unit, survive an attack, and finish off a 2nd to level.
The 10% pierce resist helps against loyalist spearmen at night (in fact, I lost loyals vs drakes to mass skirmishers because I couldn't out-run them at night, and I was hitting for 4-3 or 5-3 vs 5-4 or 6-4).

And once you get an ambusher with 32 base hp... you got a fast and hard hitting unit that's hellish to take out. If you don't kill it in 1 turn, it'll be able to disengage and retreat due to 7-8 movement and skirmish.

They're not line troops so much as units you slip into the enemy lines to do extra damage/kill off a unit (for example, zoc blocking only allows you to attack with 2 units. But add in 2 saurians and suddenly you can send 4 units to hit that guy in 1 turn).

Now, are fencers better? Yes. However, taken from a faction perspective, I think saurians are better overall, as they make drakes have both chaotic and lawful troops, whereas fencers just add yet another lawful unit to the loyalist lineup.
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Post by Martinus »

Yogin wrote:What about an ulf?

I'd consider him one of the ultimate assassins.
Ulf is a witchhunter,not an assasin ;)
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Post by joshudson »

Also I recruit a lot of them when playing drakes against orcs. A lot of them die, but that leaves lots of damaged grunts to clean up with drakes. I've actually leveled my leader that way (L3 leadership against orcs = very dangerous)
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Post by krotop »

Kalis wrote:Now, are fencers better? Yes. However, taken from a faction perspective, I think saurians are better overall, as they make drakes have both chaotic and lawful troops, whereas fencers just add yet another lawful unit to the loyalist lineup.
I don't think one is better than the other. They're just different. Saurian's mobility is higher due to a better movetype and can they can do a 4-2 ranged attack. Fencers are more resilient on the whole and fit better in grassland slots.


I may be wrong, but I don't think their use is quite the same. For instance, I commonly see a group of saurians rushing an opponent while I don't often see (never for good players but I don't watch all their games of course) a mass of 2 or 3 fencers around a target. I don't master loyalists and believe there's many ways to play them, but fencers are rather a utility unit IMHO.

Edit : last paragraph is a bit off-topic.
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Kalis
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Post by Kalis »

You can't rush fencers because of time of day :) Day1 always starts at dawn, which makes it night-time when you reach the opponent.
In addition, your saurian skirmishers can be supported by those really fast moving augurs (which are basically low hp mages).

But I find both units are used pretty much the same way. You have a very small number of them, and they come in and do finishing hits or attack low hp units.

The difference is saurian skirmishers level up easily, while fencers don't (but have more survivability).
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Post by Beholder »

Sapient wrote:
Xandria wrote:Isn't the skirmisher an assassin? Running around with his pokey spear, sticking it into a wounded unit or a wizard, tossing a spear or two here and there?
I'd say an 'assassin' in Wesnoth means you are a chaotic ambush/backstabber or an evasivefoot with ranged poison, who has good movement, but may or may not be a skirmisher.

So let's see:
1) chaotic - yes
2a)i) ambush - no
2a)ii) backstab - no
2b)i) evasivefoot - no. it has pretty good defense but not quite at that level
2b)ii) poison - no. just raw pierce damage
3a) good movement - yes
3b) skirmisher - yes

So, judging by my score here it is 2/3 of an assassin. Of course if by assassination you just mean transmitting death behind the enemies defenses, then Gryphons and Silver Mages are far better qualified for the term. But, sure-- you can use saurian skirmishers for that too. I prefer calling them a scout because that Wesnoth archetype seems to be the more generally applicable one.
But the Glider is already a Scout, a superior one I need to say, with flying and higher movement.

I think he is a Assassin due to Skimirsh. He is very similar to the Fencer, only cheaper and sadly, weaker.

His "magic" weakness (cold, fire) make him a easy prey to caster which are the best unit to kill him anyway due to high defense. At a good time of the day (day for mages, night for augurs / adepts) a single caster can kill him if he hit all shoots.
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