You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

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Xandria
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Xandria » November 27th, 2009, 8:17 am

Usually, you shoot with the thunderer, and if he hits, you act on the opportunity, if not, then you have a backup plan.
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csarmi
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by csarmi » November 27th, 2009, 9:36 pm

And that is called strategic planning. Which, incidentally, wesnoth is all about.

ronlevy1
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by ronlevy1 » December 20th, 2009, 7:27 pm

silent wrote:
csarmi wrote:That would take away the whole point of the thunderstick attack. Besides, it's an advantage, if used well.
Attacks should never be luck dependent in the first place, even if you are trying to hit something in the open or on poor terrain
Your argument may be prudent, but some of my best successes have resulted from taking a gamble and attacking while hoping for the best.

Flaimdude
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Re:

Post by Flaimdude » January 26th, 2010, 12:28 am

Kristjan wrote:it seems the topic is a trap for arrogant, ignorant newbies!
You mean such as yourself?

(I'm sorry, but after reading 5 pages of posts from this guy, I had to say something. Yes, I know it's 2 years old.)

Also, the Wesnoth factions are amazing balanced. It's the maps and the add-ons (as well as the skill level of the players and, to some extent, 'luck') that can lead some players to think that it isn't.

Also, first post. Woo. :) (Not really though - my old account was Flamedude; but I'd rather have a new clean slate than drag up that old one when I had the same amount of common sense as a mushroom back then)
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Groznij
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Groznij » August 14th, 2010, 2:37 pm

ronlevy1 wrote:
silent wrote: Attacks should never be luck dependent in the first place, even if you are trying to hit something in the open or on poor terrain
Your argument may be prudent, but some of my best successes have resulted from taking a gamble and attacking while hoping for the best.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess they also resulted in some of your worst failures... ;)

Caphriel
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Caphriel » August 14th, 2010, 4:48 pm

You just posted in a 7-months-dead sticky to respond to an 8-months-old post :augh:

Mongo
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Mongo » September 7th, 2010, 8:02 pm

i think the summoner's are extremely powerful if any would like i to tell me how to post a replay i have a game where i just played both sides to show people the top lvls of the units in this faction they are extremely epic

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Dixie
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Dixie » September 7th, 2010, 10:18 pm

These guys are not mainline, they're from Era of Magic, an era which has a power level above that of mainline. Sure, they won,t be balanced against mainline, but they should be amongst themselves. That said, you can refer to Era of Magic's thread in the Faction and Era Development forums an give any comment you have over there :)
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CoolDude
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by CoolDude » December 31st, 2010, 3:26 am

in default era,every faction is balanced,but some factoins can get really hard battles i will put here,the second one will need to think alot to win

undead vs northeners(not really much to say about this one)
knalgans vs elves(both need to think on this one,this is maybe the hardest fight in MP in the game)
undead vs drakes(both need to think too,both have the weakness of both types,drakes melt bones while adpets freeze drakes to frozen solid)
loyalists vs drakes(pierce lovers vs pierce haters,i think you get it what i mean)


but loyalists can really get OVERPOWERED in age of heroes while undead got very Underpowered

loyalists reason to have so much power:

spearman can lvl to 3 different style of melee cahracter:
swordsman=very strong unit,8-4 melee is pretty good,and can devasted a unit in day
pikeman=horse nightmare and he stil have the first strike habilty,unlike swordsman
javeliner=somewhat a fusion between archer and spearman

lancer or knight=kill any unit that goes careless on flat terrain
white mage=loyalists biggest problem that they had was cure,now the problem is solved,and he is the reason to make loyalists even more overpowered against undeads.
shocktroooper=nobody wants to get hit with a ball of steel filled with spikes
redmage=wose burner,bone melter

so yeah,they are known to be the most versatile,and he have lvl 2 unit now,making even more versatile,altough to the cost of lvl 2 is pretty big,you can just put a lvl 2 unit and wait some turns to deploy another.

Undead is underpowered because every faction have better counter for them:but his strenght should not be underestimated.

silent
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by silent » December 31st, 2010, 5:02 am

CoolDude wrote:in default era,every faction is balanced,but some factoins can get really hard battles i will put here,the second one will need to think alot to win

undead vs northeners(not really much to say about this one)
knalgans vs elves(both need to think on this one,this is maybe the hardest fight in MP in the game)
undead vs drakes(both need to think too,both have the weakness of both types,drakes melt bones while adpets freeze drakes to frozen solid)
loyalists vs drakes(pierce lovers vs pierce haters,i think you get it what i mean)
To respond

I agree with the first one, as I've found it incredibly difficult to recover from even one poor turn of RNG in this matchup as northerners. They are far too dependent on whelps and archers, and also grunts, hitting their targets way too often. The goblin and wolf rider helps a bot for adepts, but for skeles, it becomes incredibly frustrating, and trying to remove a ghoul off a village is a nightmare.

The second one...not so sure...I think it's more about who can put together the better attack here, as on face value, it seems whoever steps onto flat terrain better be successful with their attack, or they're just going to run themselves into the ground vs the defenders, due to the terrain defence here.

Third one varies amongst the players, but I'd much prefer to be the drakes myself. Might be more playstyles that influence that one.

Fourth one: Saurians can make a very big difference here, though I'd agree the drake player needs to take a fair bit of care when defending.

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Reepurr
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Reepurr » December 31st, 2010, 11:29 am

AoH is not really balanced at all. There's been more than one discussion on it. Actually balancing it would probably mess up all the campaigns in existence (imagine if orcish warriors lost 1 damage!).
undead vs northeners(not really much to say about this one)
knalgans vs elves(both need to think on this one,this is maybe the hardest fight in MP in the game)
undead vs drakes(both need to think too,both have the weakness of both types,drakes melt bones while adpets freeze drakes to frozen solid)
loyalists vs drakes(pierce lovers vs pierce haters,i think you get it what i mean)
Undead v Northerners: Definitely a tough fight. Wolf riders, archers and some grunt-shaped meat walls would work quite well though.
Knalgan Alliance v Rebels: Whoever grabs the terrain wins. If both sides grab their terrain, neither one wins. That's what I'd say.
Undead v Drakes: Just about everything under the sun: counter with warriors/burners/gliders*. Clashers are useless unless you swarm them against DAs, which isn't exactly easy. Saurians are better for retaliating against DAs. Use an augur with a bunch of drakes clustered around it, fight gets even harder.
Loyalists v Drakes: The drakes can use sheer strength of arms to kill off the pierce lovers. Clashers, or at least the Arbiters, have pierce resistance, and burners...burn...

* Gliders deal as much fire damage as a warrior, are faster and have an impact melee for skellies.
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Taekeun
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Taekeun » February 16th, 2011, 12:15 pm

I think wesnoth is pretty balanced

Rowanthepreacher
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Rowanthepreacher » March 7th, 2011, 12:36 am

Drakes are horribly, horribly underpowered. They have terrible terrain defences and mediocre health. In addition, most of them have either a low damage x 2 attack, or even lower damage many times. Other factions might be able to kill off a weak enemy, but drakes pretty much always have to duke it out. Their level 2s are fair, as are the level 3s, but still nothing special. If you're not fighting someone with a crippling weakness to fire, it's not going to go well for the drakes. Lack of healers doesn't help things.

monochromatic
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by monochromatic » March 7th, 2011, 12:40 am

Rowanthepreacher wrote:Drakes are horribly, horribly underpowered. They have terrible terrain defences and mediocre health. In addition, most of them have either a low damage x 2 attack, or even lower damage many times. Other factions might be able to kill off a weak enemy, but drakes pretty much always have to duke it out. Their level 2s are fair, as are the level 3s, but still nothing special. If you're not fighting someone with a crippling weakness to fire, it's not going to go well for the drakes. Lack of healers doesn't help things.
Actually, you do have a healer, the Saurian Augur.

You're forgetting something, Drakes are the quickest faction. They have the best movetype and great movement point average. Plus what you said is all true. That's why you also have (OP) saurians to counterbalance that weakness.

Caphriel
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Re: You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!

Post by Caphriel » March 7th, 2011, 1:34 am

Rowanthepreacher wrote:Drakes are horribly, horribly underpowered. They have terrible terrain defences and mediocre health. In addition, most of them have either a low damage x 2 attack, or even lower damage many times. Other factions might be able to kill off a weak enemy, but drakes pretty much always have to duke it out. Their level 2s are fair, as are the level 3s, but still nothing special. If you're not fighting someone with a crippling weakness to fire, it's not going to go well for the drakes. Lack of healers doesn't help things.
"Most of them have low damage x 2 attack" ? The drakes have some of the highest damage output units in the game. The only ones with low damage are the glider, which is a scout, the skirmisher, which has other strengths, and the augur, which has magic, and healing, and the very good saurian movetype/defense values.
Also, the Drakes are the most maneuverable faction in the game, and as such, are the faction that is least accurately described as "always having to duke it out."
They're one of the two factions that gets leadership on a regularly acquirable level 2 unit.
They also have the easiest-to-level healer, with an intelligent augur only needing 2 kills to level into a soothsayer. They're one of the two factions that has a healer available, as elvish_sovereign pointed out.

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