Loyalist strategies

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

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JW
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Post by JW »

Fencers have 4-4 Blade and Skirmish with 6 moves. Strong Fencers have 20 damage, and are a formidable force. They are great for ZOC and for finishing off weak units. If you can level one, they are perhaps the most annoying level 2 unit to fight.
Imp
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Post by Imp »

Not to mention skirmishers prevent the opponent from healing many units - especially mages - near the front line. So they either have to spend several turns retreating injured units to safer villages or contort their position to keep your skirmisher out.

I think the Loyalists are the most fun to play, although that might just be a side effect of the sublime campaign called TROW. :-)
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TheChosenOne
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Post by TheChosenOne »

Basically the strategy depends on what your enemy race is. Don't recruit heavily unless you know what your enemy race is.

Basically :

1. Drakes are weak to :
-Cold
-Pierce

2. Dwarves are weak to :
-Nothing, but they only have 10% resistance vs fire and cold.

3. Elves are weak to :
-Everything.
-Only exception is their Woses : they have 60% resistance vs impact but 0% resistance vs blade.

4. Loyalists are weak to :
-Nothing and everything. Depending on the unit. (eg. : HI is strong vs blade and impact but weak vs cold)

5. Orcs are weak to :
-Nothing. Even their scouts, the wolf riders, do not receive pierce vulnerability.

6. Undeads are weak to :
-Holy
-Fire
-Impact

Therefore you should see what your enemy's race is, then understand what attack types is he / she weak at and his alignment (lawful / chaotic / neutral) then recruit the corresponding units to attack your enemy and attack him / her at the right time.
Eg: vs the drakes, they are weak vs pierce and cold.
Since loyalists do not have cold-based unit, your option is only pierce.
Therefore the backbone of your army should be made of spearmen
and bowman, with horsemen occasionally to charge those burners =)


Imp wrote: I think the Loyalists are the most fun to play, although that might just be a side effect of the sublime campaign called TROW. :-)
AGREE LOL
Numbers do not win a battle
---Konrad III
(A loyal member of the pro-loyalists)

Would you like to translate the Battle of Wesnoth into Indonesian? Then come and join us at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/IndonesianTranslation
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

one thing i heavily and heartily disagree with- elves being weak to everything. Just because you have 0% resistance doesn't mean you're weak to it. Elves lack resistances, but they get good defense in forest. This makes units with more hits, such as fencers, or magic using units, mages, rather than the HI, because there is a good chance the HI will miss both hits. Can't say how to counter a race only on resistances- it helps, but it needs something more. The rest i agree with, except northies. Northeners are weak to ranged attacks due to lack of many ranged attacking units.
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Airk
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Post by Airk »

F8 Binds... wrote:one thing i heavily and heartily disagree with- elves being weak to everything. Just because you have 0% resistance doesn't mean you're weak to it. Elves lack resistances, but they get good defense in forest. This makes units with more hits, such as fencers, or magic using units, mages, rather than the HI, because there is a good chance the HI will miss both hits. Can't say how to counter a race only on resistances- it helps, but it needs something more. The rest i agree with, except northies. Northeners are weak to ranged attacks due to lack of many ranged attacking units.
I agree; There's no way you can get away with saying the elves are "weak against everything" while the orcs are "weak against nothing" when the have essentially the same resistances (Actually, if you tallied them all, the weaknesses of the orcish assassin and the naga would probably result in the elves having a higher overall resist total than the northerners!) I'd be inclined to rate both forces as "weak against" nothing from a resistance perspective, but F8 is right - trying to discuss how to beat a faction just by talking about its resistances is a recipe for failure.
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krotop
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Post by krotop »

Airk wrote:
F8 Binds... wrote:one thing i heavily and heartily disagree with- elves being weak to everything. Just because you have 0% resistance doesn't mean you're weak to it. Elves lack resistances, but they get good defense in forest. This makes units with more hits, such as fencers, or magic using units, mages, rather than the HI, because there is a good chance the HI will miss both hits. Can't say how to counter a race only on resistances- it helps, but it needs something more. The rest i agree with, except northies. Northeners are weak to ranged attacks due to lack of many ranged attacking units.
I agree; There's no way you can get away with saying the elves are "weak against everything" while the orcs are "weak against nothing" when the have essentially the same resistances (Actually, if you tallied them all, the weaknesses of the orcish assassin and the naga would probably result in the elves having a higher overall resist total than the northerners!) I'd be inclined to rate both forces as "weak against" nothing from a resistance perspective, but F8 is right - trying to discuss how to beat a faction just by talking about its resistances is a recipe for failure.

TheChosenOne said that because orcs have more HPs than elves in general. That means that even if the resistances are the same, orcs need more hits to be killed. IMHO that was the way he meant "orcs resist to everything" and "elves are weak to everything".

The meaning of "resistance" is a bit confusing. (for ex : I consider ghosts weak to fire while they have 10% resistance)

Knowing the weaknesses of a faction is not enough to beat it but it helps. Recruiting is not a minor matter, and the loyalists faction is the most complex on that point.
against undead : I'd go for Heavy infantry + mages + horses (both of them)
against drakes : mostly perciers but adapt to the number of saurians
against elves : all round recruit, if you need fast units, better use fencers as horses are weak to elves arrow. I sometime use a horse with the "double-damage" hit to cover villages from elven scouts and rush elves that had to go in plain to overcome your defence. I sometime go for 2 mages, depending on the number of woses.
against orcs : all round recruit.
against dwarves : all round recruit. Heavy are good guys as dwarves don't have fire or cold attack, but warriors entranched in mountains still own them, so I wouldn't make too many as they also have their drawbacks that need to be compensated with other units.

It's not much of an answer, but I'm not good enough with loyalists to give precise lethal admitted Truth.
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

krotop wrote:TheChosenOne said that because orcs have more HPs than elves in general. That means that even if the resistances are the same, orcs need more hits to be killed. IMHO that was the way he meant "orcs resist to everything" and "elves are weak to everything".
well, maybe he should mention this- "elves are frail on bad terrain, but in forest, they are hard to remove." Resistances and HP are two different subjects. One controls how much damage one recieves, the other how much damage one can take before death. He was refering to resistances. As a basic rule, elves are weak against melee on bad terrain.
krotop wrote:The meaning of "resistance" is a bit confusing. (for ex : I consider ghosts weak to fire while they have 10% resistance)
I would also agree ghosts are weak to fire, but that's an extreme compared to elves being weak to attack because of their lower hp. While a mage only takes 3 hits at dusk to kill a ghost, it takes 5 hits from a spearman to kill an EF, 5 to kill an EA, 4 to kill an EShaman, and 5 to kill an EScout. Point made?
krotop wrote:Knowing the weaknesses of a faction is not enough to beat it but it helps. Recruiting is not a minor matter, and the loyalists faction is the most complex on that point.
against undead : I'd go for Heavy infantry + mages + horses (both of them)
against drakes : mostly perciers but adapt to the number of saurians
against elves : all round recruit, if you need fast units, better use fencers as horses are weak to elves arrow. I sometime use a horse with the "double-damage" hit to cover villages from elven scouts and rush elves that had to go in plain to overcome your defence. I sometime go for 2 mages, depending on the number of woses.
against orcs : all round recruit.
against dwarves : all round recruit. Heavy are good guys as dwarves don't have fire or cold attack, but warriors entranched in mountains still own them, so I wouldn't make too many as they also have their drawbacks that need to be compensated with other units.
Well, I have some changes i would make-

against undead, same, but with fencers, possibly spearmen to kill DA's.

against drakes, same, just as krotop mentioned, don't go for only drakes. i even recommend a mage for dealing with saurians.

against elves? look in my other post. HI are not your best choice unless dealing with many EF's. not only mages for woses, but to counter elves high defence.

orcs, make units that absorb melee damage, (HI, some) units that deal melee damage, (spearmen) but mainly focus on the orc's lack of ranged attacks. This means bowman, and a mage. Spearman focus on archers and assassins, which will dominate any HI you have. Use HI to get the nasty grunts that come after you at night, as you will actually do more damage then them at that time of day. I like to avoid horseman as northies are melee- oriented. For

knalgans, i like to use high resistance units, because their units also have high resistances, and lack a counter to high defence. Just be aware that HI cannot travel through mountains. Calvaryman/ maybe a horseman are nice to kill dwarves not entrenched in mountains, or to flank them, as they lack the ability to move quickly. HI counter almost anything but DF's well, and They absorb thunderer hits well.
krotop wrote:It's not much of an answer, but I'm not good enough with loyalists to give precise lethal admitted Truth.
You are still learning. So am I.
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I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
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TheChosenOne
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Post by TheChosenOne »

Airk wrote:
F8 Binds... wrote:one thing i heavily and heartily disagree with- elves being weak to everything. Just because you have 0% resistance doesn't mean you're weak to it. Elves lack resistances, but they get good defense in forest. This makes units with more hits, such as fencers, or magic using units, mages, rather than the HI, because there is a good chance the HI will miss both hits. Can't say how to counter a race only on resistances- it helps, but it needs something more. The rest i agree with, except northies. Northeners are weak to ranged attacks due to lack of many ranged attacking units.
I agree; There's no way you can get away with saying the elves are "weak against everything" while the orcs are "weak against nothing" when the have essentially the same resistances (Actually, if you tallied them all, the weaknesses of the orcish assassin and the naga would probably result in the elves having a higher overall resist total than the northerners!) I'd be inclined to rate both forces as "weak against" nothing from a resistance perspective, but F8 is right - trying to discuss how to beat a faction just by talking about its resistances is a recipe for failure.
I am sorry if you misunderstood me, but what I meant by 'strong' and 'weak' is just their resistances. I am not saying that they are VERY weak, so as to speak.
Numbers do not win a battle
---Konrad III
(A loyal member of the pro-loyalists)

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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

TheChosenOne wrote:
Airk wrote: I agree; There's no way you can get away with saying the elves are "weak against everything" while the orcs are "weak against nothing" when the have essentially the same resistances (Actually, if you tallied them all, the weaknesses of the orcish assassin and the naga would probably result in the elves having a higher overall resist total than the northerners!) I'd be inclined to rate both forces as "weak against" nothing from a resistance perspective, but F8 is right - trying to discuss how to beat a faction just by talking about its resistances is a recipe for failure.
I am sorry if you misunderstood me, but what I meant by 'strong' and 'weak' is just their resistances. I am not saying that they are VERY weak, so as to speak.
Yes i know that! however both are at 0% resistances for the main units. (not including holy, but that's obvious) how do I say this? elves aren't weak in the resistance category. orcs aren't strong in the resistance category. only the troll has any good resistances in the orc arsenal. :shock: :roll: :?:
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Airk
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Post by Airk »

And the troll is definitely balanced out by the Orcish Assassin, which -is- weak, resistance-wise.
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Post by Martinus »

I wouldn't use horseman against dwarves, even if my opponent had only chaotic humans.
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TheChosenOne
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Post by TheChosenOne »

Martinus wrote:I wouldn't use horseman against dwarves, even if my opponent had only chaotic humans.
There is, of course, a situation where the horsemen are useful vs dwarves - when your opponent makes poachers as their meat and places them on poor terrain.
Numbers do not win a battle
---Konrad III
(A loyal member of the pro-loyalists)

Would you like to translate the Battle of Wesnoth into Indonesian? Then come and join us at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/IndonesianTranslation
MAttik
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Post by MAttik »

With loyalist good recruit could be 2 or 3 spearman/archer, 1 cavalry, 1 fencer and 1mage/Heavy infantry this is ofcourse vs random faction.

but usually just attack at day and always try keep 1 fencer near frontline, they are really good giving threat to enemy, finishing units and sometimes they are also good tanks specially vs drake burners.
U should also keep some ranged units in battle but dont overbuy them, they are always useful. and mage specially with it u get enemy villages better (dont work so good vs drakes). And the basic unit of your army should be spearman, cause they are cheap and have good HP and normal defense. maybe vs undead few HI is useful too.

and if its large map try use fast units to make your slow enemy moving up and down during night.
cause horsemen/cavalry are one of the best scouts in game, with good resist and effective attacks.
and vs undead I prefer cavalry for it 20% cold resist and blade attacks.
And what does it matter
If fortune should favor
It's never the final amen

-Poets of the Fall-
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

fencers are nice ulf killers when ulfs are on bad terrain, since they have excellent defense and skirmish, even moreso with strong fencers. the thunderers should be countered by spearmen, and can get annoying on mountains or hills. Don't use HI "much" in this matchup, only to absorb damage such as a troll. Horseman are NICE at finishing thunderers, which can be annoying. avoid units that cannot be killed in a single blow, or ones in good terrain that give back decent damage, even if they can be killed in a single blow.
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KingofNoobia
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Post by KingofNoobia »

In small maps (like confrontation-4p) were you cant use dirty tactics (like sneak behind their lines and steal their villages), you should just make a variety of units (first look at the enemy's faction. Drakes? make a spearman, a bowman, a horseman, against the drakes and a mage and a heavy infantryman against saurians. This combination works against most factions, but against undead that should be: 2 HI, 2 mages and a horseman) and try to take half of the map so you get the villages. Do not storm to your enemy as when you get there, it will be night (if the enemy is Loyalist too, it doesn't matter). Instead, retreat a bit and hold a tiny spot of rough terrain and villages surrounded by plains with your HI, spearmen or archers. Meanwhile defend your villages well: it doesn't matter if you lose some, but try to defend them. Keep your horsemen and mages in the second line. The enemy will have to attack your infantry from the plains so you get a defense bonus. Once they attack, get your mages and horsemen and attack the weakened enemy, while your infantry stays on the defense.

Oh yeah something very important: once you have recruited these 5 units do NOT recruit any more troops. Let your leader stick to his keep. Once it is Second Watch, spend all your money to new troops (replace the dead ones and recruit some more) and let your leader come with these reinforcements. They should arrive at daybreak. These reinforcements, together with the Lawful-day-bonus should be enough to break through the enemy lines when you play smart. Keep attacking until Dusk. Then, retreat your leader to his keep to recruit more men, and capture advantageous terrain to hold off the enemy's night attack. Repeat it until you reach the enemy's leader and slay him. You will constantly gain terrain, and thus, get more villages.

That's what usually works with me against AI, but I think it's also a basic against human players :) .
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