Dwarfish Thunderer debate

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unsung
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Post by unsung » November 5th, 2006, 10:11 pm

Glowing Fish wrote:Why did we have to turn my nice thread about strategy into something so flameful?
After reading the posts before this, this was enought to make me burst out laughing.
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?

Sombra
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Re: Dwarfish Thunderer debate

Post by Sombra » November 6th, 2006, 7:42 am

Higher Game wrote:There's just too big of a chance of the thunderguard missing, though. It's simply not as useful as a poacher in most situations.
Interessting because myself I use poachers not very often. Perhaps there is lot of woods to cover, playing aginst Drakes. Well thinking about it playing aginst drakes the thunderer are resoponsible to the extinction of the Dragons :wink:

In MP as the Knalgans I think the thunderer is one of the most used units. Perhaps we are all missing something or you should join the community on the actual 1.11 server and show us what most of us are doing wrong.

One hit with a thunderer and an enemy is mostly dead. Ideal for an easy kill for an thief etc. If I miss well at least the rest on my units are not commited on "half" a kill" . Attacking a thunderer with other range shooters is very risky therefore he is left alone by most elven archers and a nice unit to hold any mountain.

Poachers are great at night and scoring some hits. I like the massive 1 time damage of the thunderer more becaue then I know I will get the kill if the thunderer hits.

BeRzErKeR
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Post by BeRzErKeR » November 7th, 2006, 2:19 am

I'm a noob, so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Thunderers great for taking out pesky trolls? Lots of hp, regenerates every turn, so you want to do a lot of damage on one turn. Enter the Thunderer. . .
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I've served my time in hell."

Sly
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Post by Sly » November 7th, 2006, 10:42 am

BeRzErKeR wrote:I'm a noob, so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Thunderers great for taking out pesky trolls? Lots of hp, regenerates every turn, so you want to do a lot of damage on one turn. Enter the Thunderer. . .
Rather right, even if the troll has 20% resistance to pierce, his loosy defence is a plus for the thunderer

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krotop
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Re: Dwarfish Thunderer debate

Post by krotop » November 7th, 2006, 3:02 pm

Sombra wrote:One hit with a thunderer and an enemy is mostly dead. Ideal for an easy kill for an thief etc. If I miss well at least the rest on my units are not commited on "half" a kill".
I'm with you Sombra. Always 1st attack with the thunderer then choose the other moves depending on the result : if opponents is badly hurt, it worths to finish it, else save your others units for another strategic strike or position holding. Thunderer doesn't make you count on luck, on the contrary, it makes you know if it's good time for defending or for killing units.

I don't forget that a poacher is more likely to finish a 8 hp guy (I mean 2 hits in standard conditions) and he's more valuable in forests, but I think the anger or frustration you felt because of some misses, at moments when you chose to take risks, makes you misjudge the worth of the thunderer, Higher Game. To be honest, I felt the same and it took some time for me to admit that thunderers were one of the keys in dwarf's strategy.

Maybe you all did it already, but, in case of, I advise to read JW's "How to play series...", it's well detailed and quite accessible to us, noobs.
Last edited by krotop on November 7th, 2006, 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

telly
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Post by telly » November 7th, 2006, 3:11 pm

I tend to prefer poachers, it depends on the map though. Poacher's lower cost and lower xp to level is what swings it for me.

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Xandria
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Post by Xandria » November 7th, 2006, 6:23 pm

An important thing to consider is the terrain of the map in question, though. Let's face it, a thunderer has horrible defense ratings on anything but hills and mountains, and castle hexes of course. 30 percent on grass, forest, and some 20 or even 10 on water just don't cut it. So, if the map you're playing is featuring a decent amount of decent terrain, go for the thunderer; so, he may actually get around to shooting the horseman he was supposed to, instead of being run over.

Poachers are essential to Knalgans in one way: they can hold forest hexes, without having the vulnerabilities of the thief or footpad. You cannot stick a dwarf into a wood, he's going to die, and die he will horribly. A poacher will make himself comfy and enjoy some 60 defense, while being able to return fire - with elves being the hottest contestants for said forest hex, this is a vital trait.
For campaigns the poacher is of limited use due to the absence of a third level advance, though a trapper's 4-4 in melee is actually sweet. Still it can't compete with the sheer awesomeness of a 40-1 blast. Take this, evildoer!
The fight against human stupidity is endless, but we must never give it up.
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Sombra
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Post by Sombra » November 8th, 2006, 11:56 am

On the other hand if a thunderer hits he wont take counter damage many times because his victim is dead.

The biggest advantage of the thunderer is of course the nice "boom" noise.

BeRzErKeR
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Post by BeRzErKeR » November 8th, 2006, 7:28 pm

A bit off topic:

There's been some debate about whether thunderers use "guns" or not?

In the Thunderguard description, it mentions the black powder they pour into their "thundersticks". In addition, during the Thunderer firing animation a little black ball flies out of the tube at the Thunderer's target.

This leads me to the conclusion that the Thunderer uses a weapon which fires small projectiles at the enemy via explosive powder, known in common parlance as a "gun".
And when he gets to heaven
To Saint Peter he will tell,
"One more Marine reporting sir,
I've served my time in hell."

Gus
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Post by Gus » November 8th, 2006, 8:01 pm

I don't think anyone could argue they're not using guns, could they?
Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right away.

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wayfarer
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Post by wayfarer » November 8th, 2006, 8:14 pm

Gus wrote:I don't think anyone could argue they're not using guns, could they?
Please not this discussion again.

jg
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Post by jg » November 8th, 2006, 8:24 pm

It was discussed some time ago, and I think (if I remember correctly), then it was decided that they use a gun (or a pre-state of one)...

jg

Airk
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Post by Airk » November 8th, 2006, 10:13 pm

Muzzle-loading muskets!

Gus
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Post by Gus » November 9th, 2006, 2:42 am

wayfarer wrote:
Gus wrote:I don't think anyone could argue they're not using guns, could they?
Please not this discussion again.
Sorry, my comment was genuine, as i was not aware there had been a long (and seemingly unpleasant) discussion about this matter. I will try the search function and read it myself =)
Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right away.

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turin
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Post by turin » November 9th, 2006, 3:24 am

They use thundersticks.

If you use the word gun, turin will shoot you with one. 8)
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