Footpads are the death of me
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Footpads are the death of me
I use 'Footpad' in the Subject line because they're the Skirmisher in the scenario I'm presently trying to fight.
My opponent (the Computer) invariably builds masses of footpads (He also has Gryphons, another story). The footpads can go over and through any territory, including over mountains. So I anchor my line on a mountain and a lake, and the footpads come round and chop up the units on the ends, as well as overwhelming anything in the middle.
I've tried putting heavy infantry against them, but they seem to be immune to just about anything, and tend to do horrific damage to the HI.
The computer doesn't seem to be playing the way other people see it, only going after the weaker units. It seems to go at whoever it can reach, though it does, admittedly, try to gang up at least a bit.
I don't know how people manage to "make a line in front of the wounded units." If three units in my line attack someone else, trying to knock them out, then they can't move. And if one of them (as is usually the case with my battles) is way low on hitpoints after the fight, there's no way to move someone between him and whoever's in front of him, even if I had a unit within range to move there.
Thee only thing that prevents the computer from beating me even worse is the bug that has the computer forced to move before attacking, which means that in a number of cases, a unit will move out of a town to attack me, leaving me able to recover the town, and its gold, next turn.
One of the best-run scenarios I ever played with in the Mystery (?) campaign, the _Return to the Village_, where I finally managed to hold a firm line together, feeding troops in every turn from the barracks way at the back (which meant my leader never got a small of the fighting).
The line. after a certain point, had nothing to anchor its flanks, but I had enough nearby villages that I could shift some units for healing when they needed it, and keep up a steady pressure until I'd taken the last orc-held village, and finally wore the leader down (I think he had 6000 HP
).
Am I too concerned about getting control of villages? I've managed to mostly break myself of the habit of sending some fast unit up there way in front of my lines in order to grab off a town, but not making the towns one focus of my strategy eventually leaves me with no gold to buy anything with.
JimW
My opponent (the Computer) invariably builds masses of footpads (He also has Gryphons, another story). The footpads can go over and through any territory, including over mountains. So I anchor my line on a mountain and a lake, and the footpads come round and chop up the units on the ends, as well as overwhelming anything in the middle.
I've tried putting heavy infantry against them, but they seem to be immune to just about anything, and tend to do horrific damage to the HI.
The computer doesn't seem to be playing the way other people see it, only going after the weaker units. It seems to go at whoever it can reach, though it does, admittedly, try to gang up at least a bit.
I don't know how people manage to "make a line in front of the wounded units." If three units in my line attack someone else, trying to knock them out, then they can't move. And if one of them (as is usually the case with my battles) is way low on hitpoints after the fight, there's no way to move someone between him and whoever's in front of him, even if I had a unit within range to move there.
Thee only thing that prevents the computer from beating me even worse is the bug that has the computer forced to move before attacking, which means that in a number of cases, a unit will move out of a town to attack me, leaving me able to recover the town, and its gold, next turn.
One of the best-run scenarios I ever played with in the Mystery (?) campaign, the _Return to the Village_, where I finally managed to hold a firm line together, feeding troops in every turn from the barracks way at the back (which meant my leader never got a small of the fighting).
The line. after a certain point, had nothing to anchor its flanks, but I had enough nearby villages that I could shift some units for healing when they needed it, and keep up a steady pressure until I'd taken the last orc-held village, and finally wore the leader down (I think he had 6000 HP
).Am I too concerned about getting control of villages? I've managed to mostly break myself of the habit of sending some fast unit up there way in front of my lines in order to grab off a town, but not making the towns one focus of my strategy eventually leaves me with no gold to buy anything with.
JimW
For the record, I would just like to say that gryphons are vastly more abusive than Footpads. 50% universal defense, HP to rival a fighter class unit and the highest speed in the game coupled with the potential to inflict 26 damage is just... crap. It's crap. I've seen single gryphon attacks kill units heavily entrenched in forts or mountains spontaneously, sometimes even multiple times on the same turn.
I haven't played any custom campaigns yet and rarely even see Footpads in use so I can't really help much, but it seems like you're going to have to form a barricade around your injured guys and give up some villages. Lots of missions in the campaigns force you to sacrifice income entirely to win and this may be one of them.
I haven't played any custom campaigns yet and rarely even see Footpads in use so I can't really help much, but it seems like you're going to have to form a barricade around your injured guys and give up some villages. Lots of missions in the campaigns force you to sacrifice income entirely to win and this may be one of them.
Re: Footpads are the death of me
Congratulations. You managed to identify the worst possible unit you could try to use against Footpads and recruit it.JimW wrote:My opponent (the Computer) invariably builds masses of footpads (He also has Gryphons, another story). The footpads can go over and through any territory, including over mountains. So I anchor my line on a mountain and a lake, and the footpads come round and chop up the units on the ends, as well as overwhelming anything in the middle.
I've tried putting heavy infantry against them, but they seem to be immune to just about anything, and tend to do horrific damage to the HI.
Honestly - against HI the Footpads will seem like skirmishers because they can simply outmaneuver them, and if you do corner one Footpad, you don't have enough strikes to hit it. The HI's armour is worst against impact damage, which is the damage type the Footpads deal. HI also have no ranged defense against the Footpads' slingshot.Consider using a team of one mage (magic is great for hitting those deft footpads and thieves), a few cavalrymen for catching footpads and ZOC'ing them (a tactic you need to use when attacking highly mobile units), and for protecting flanks, and some bowmen (possibly spearmen). You'll find them much more capable than HI at taking out Footpads.
Try some Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns
Gryphons are one of the most expensive units. 24 Gold and very very vulnerable against counter attacks or ranged weapons. Try a gryphon rush in multiplayer andy you will see what I mean.Shiver wrote:For the record, I would just like to say that gryphons are vastly more abusive than Footpads. 50% universal defense, HP to rival a fighter class unit and the highest speed in the game coupled with the potential to inflict 26 damage is just... crap. It's crap. I've seen single gryphon attacks kill units heavily entrenched in forts or mountains spontaneously, sometimes even multiple times on the same turn.
I haven't played any custom campaigns yet and rarely even see Footpads in use so I can't really help much, but it seems like you're going to have to form a barricade around your injured guys and give up some villages. Lots of missions in the campaigns force you to sacrifice income entirely to win and this may be one of them.
I love playing with the chaotic units. A footpad in the hills or forest or a village is a wonderful thing to have. They have a 70% defense so units with just a few attacks usually miss.
They don't have skirmish ability - at least not in the mainline campaigns in versions 1.1.X. So you can use zone of control to screen them out. You don't have to build a complete wall like this:
XXXXXXXXX
You can leave a space between units like this to screen them out:
X-X-X-X
or even at the first clash, or if you retreat out of range and they chase you you can leave 2 spaces like this
X--X
but that only works for the *first* turn of a battle.
A thread I found helpful on zone of control is here:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... hlight=zoc
If you can lure the footpads and thieves out into the open horsemen are good, one hit even after dark and they're gone. Bowmen in the day time are good to.
When they are in a village or forests and their zoc is keeping you bottled up - mages. 2 1st level mages are a sure kill to a footpad - but your mages will take some damage, be sure to have enough forces on hand to cover them up after the kill.
Gryphon's can be a pain because zoc doesn't work against them at all. But they are very expensive and once your archers and mages pick off the first rush they won't be a problem.
I've never played the mystery campaign - it always crashes and I've never bothered to look up why - but don't you have healing units of some sort? You'll find life much simpler if you advance a few mages with the "quick" trait to white mage so they can march along with your army to heal units. A white mage or a druid can give healing to 6 units at a time, much better than scattering units all over the map.
They don't have skirmish ability - at least not in the mainline campaigns in versions 1.1.X. So you can use zone of control to screen them out. You don't have to build a complete wall like this:
XXXXXXXXX
You can leave a space between units like this to screen them out:
X-X-X-X
or even at the first clash, or if you retreat out of range and they chase you you can leave 2 spaces like this
X--X
but that only works for the *first* turn of a battle.
A thread I found helpful on zone of control is here:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... hlight=zoc
If you can lure the footpads and thieves out into the open horsemen are good, one hit even after dark and they're gone. Bowmen in the day time are good to.
When they are in a village or forests and their zoc is keeping you bottled up - mages. 2 1st level mages are a sure kill to a footpad - but your mages will take some damage, be sure to have enough forces on hand to cover them up after the kill.
Gryphon's can be a pain because zoc doesn't work against them at all. But they are very expensive and once your archers and mages pick off the first rush they won't be a problem.
I've never played the mystery campaign - it always crashes and I've never bothered to look up why - but don't you have healing units of some sort? You'll find life much simpler if you advance a few mages with the "quick" trait to white mage so they can march along with your army to heal units. A white mage or a druid can give healing to 6 units at a time, much better than scattering units all over the map.
And when does the 24 gold not pay for itself after about 5 turns? The damn things never die. They can grab a bunch of villages, assist another unit in scoring a kill then flee back to safety and recover. I know cavalrymen, elvish scouts, skirmishers, vampire bats, etc are not so lucky. As soon as one of those lesser scouts bites the dust (and they generally will), the player is behind by ~10-20 gold. I don't see how gryphons are vulnerable to counter attacks given that they are guaranteed 50% defense and a high HP count.Sombra wrote:Gryphons are one of the most expensive units. 24 Gold and very very vulnerable against counter attacks or ranged weapons. Try a gryphon rush in multiplayer andy you will see what I mean.
In all the campaigns and scenarios I've played, Footpads sure act like skirmishers, and they _do_ ignore ZOC. One little gap in the line, and they're all over the rear.podunk wrote:I love playing with the chaotic units. A footpad in the hills or forest or a village is a wonderful thing to have. They have a 70% defense so units with just a few attacks usually miss.
They don't have skirmish ability - at least not in the mainline campaigns in versions 1.1.X. So you can use zone of control to screen them out. You don't have to build a complete wall like this:
XXXXXXXXX
You can leave a space between units like this to screen them out:
X-X-X-X
or even at the first clash, or if you retreat out of range and they chase you you can leave 2 spaces like this
X--X
but that only works for the *first* turn of a battle.
A thread I found helpful on zone of control is here:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... hlight=zoc
If you can lure the footpads and thieves out into the open horsemen are good, one hit even after dark and they're gone. Bowmen in the day time are good to.
When they are in a village or forests and their zoc is keeping you bottled up - mages. 2 1st level mages are a sure kill to a footpad - but your mages will take some damage, be sure to have enough forces on hand to cover them up after the kill.
Gryphon's can be a pain because zoc doesn't work against them at all. But they are very expensive and once your archers and mages pick off the first rush they won't be a problem.
I've never played the mystery campaign - it always crashes and I've never bothered to look up why - but don't you have healing units of some sort? You'll find life much simpler if you advance a few mages with the "quick" trait to white mage so they can march along with your army to heal units. A white mage or a druid can give healing to 6 units at a time, much better than scattering units all over the map.
I've tried some of the scenarios in the Multiplayer>Human vs AI section, and I've tried some of them just watching the computer play itself. Interesting thing is, the computer never recruits mages.
Not that I'm necessarily saying that I can beat the computer playing the way it does, but while I can see the reasoning for getting a mage, particularly if you can get him advanced a level or two, I have very bad luck keeping a mage alive and in sufficient action to advance. Nasty little footpads/Fencers/ whatever keep rushing in and ganging up on them.
Thanks for all the suggestions and tips.
I have a feeling it's going to be like the way it was with Civ II and every other game I've tried; I spend six weeks getting my socks beat off, then start to learn how to actually do it.
JimW
I may be a little crazy here but... I just checked and footpads are not skirmishers.
Anyway, you need mages for the high hit rate. Then you need reasonably swift, cheap, and effective units to pound them. Check their resistances; iirc they're weak to impact, pierce and blade. You need units with lots of attacks more than units with strong attacks; units who can retaliate against the ranged attacks are good too, and you need to be able to move your troops around.
In short, heavy infantry is bad, pikemen/bowmen/magi are good. Protect your mage; weaken the footpad with other units, bring the mage in for the kill and then place a unit in front of the mage. Soon enough you'll be blasting footpads merrily away with it.
Anyway, you need mages for the high hit rate. Then you need reasonably swift, cheap, and effective units to pound them. Check their resistances; iirc they're weak to impact, pierce and blade. You need units with lots of attacks more than units with strong attacks; units who can retaliate against the ranged attacks are good too, and you need to be able to move your troops around.
In short, heavy infantry is bad, pikemen/bowmen/magi are good. Protect your mage; weaken the footpad with other units, bring the mage in for the kill and then place a unit in front of the mage. Soon enough you'll be blasting footpads merrily away with it.
Had I been present at the Creation I would've given some hints as to the better ordering of the Universe...
You seriously shouldn't have any problems killing footpads with any unit 1-on-1 (except for maybe a Thief or something). If you do, well, I suggest learning how to use terrain, time of day, and simple beginner's strategy such as using your strongest attack.
Footpads are one of the weakest units in the game.
-ps, Footpads do not skirmish, so don't call them skirmishers. Only the Saurian Skirmisher, Fencer, and the advanced Thief skirmish.
Footpads are one of the weakest units in the game.
-ps, Footpads do not skirmish, so don't call them skirmishers. Only the Saurian Skirmisher, Fencer, and the advanced Thief skirmish.
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