A Choice Must Be Made ( ex. Undead cross water too fast )

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La_vie_en_Wose
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A Choice Must Be Made ( ex. Undead cross water too fast )

Post by La_vie_en_Wose »

Since the original question has been asked and answered and discussion has moved into tactics, I'm shifting this to the Strategy & Tactics Forum--Irrevenant

Bonjour everyone

In "a choice must be made" ( HTTT ), as I was trying to make my way through the scenario, I saw that skeletons were walking as fast in water as they were on grass.
I can admit Kalenz to be slowed down because of cave floor, but tell me what kind of propulsion the undead use to cross this fast deep water : their swords, helmets, etc... are iron made isnt it ?

Thanks
Last edited by La_vie_en_Wose on August 1st, 2006, 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Free
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Post by Free »

Umm, skeletons should cross water a little faster than most units in water, but they Skeletons (I think,) have a movement of 3 on deep, 2 on shallow and 1 on grass. So its not like water doesn't slow them somewhat.

If you're struggling with this scenario, you can always try to beat the orcs, although both times I played this campaign, I went after the Death Knight. I always had some white mages, to knock out the Knight's units.

Also, now that I'm looking at the map, I'm not exactly sure why a skeleton would even want to cross water here. You seem closer to the water, than the undead anyway. If a skeleton trys to cross the deep water, attack! They defend at 10%, so your hits will almost be automatic.

If this scenario has changed drastically since I played it last, ignore my last 2 paragraphs.

YbeRn00b
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Post by YbeRn00b »

Undead isn't this fast in multiplayer.

If what you say is right the campaign editor made it this way, probably because it makes this map more fun and challenging.

scott
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Post by scott »

The skeletons in this scenario are the same ones used in multiplayer, and so is the terrain. I think you must be mistaken.
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La_vie_en_Wose
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Post by La_vie_en_Wose »

Free wrote:Umm, skeletons should cross water a little faster than most units in water, but they Skeletons (I think,) have a movement of 3 on deep, 2 on shallow and 1 on grass. So its not like water doesn't slow them somewhat.
1 movement point on grass ? Are you sure ?
If you're struggling with this scenario, you can always try to beat the orcs, although both times I played this campaign, I went after the Death Knight. I always had some white mages, to knock out the Knight's units.

My tactic for this scenario is to send gryphons next to the undead to slow them and to take as many villages as possible while making my way next to the orcish leader through the mountains.
Also, now that I'm looking at the map, I'm not exactly sure why a skeleton would even want to cross water here. You seem closer to the water, than the undead anyway. If a skeleton trys to cross the deep water, attack! They defend at 10%, so your hits will almost be automatic.
I think they cross water to gain terrain on Konrad's team, preventing from crossing water with bridges. I didn't know they had only 10% in deep water. Thanks for the tip anyway Meanwhile, how could I attack them, I can't see them in deep water.
If this scenario has changed drastically since I played it last, ignore my last 2 paragraphs.
Ok. Thank you anyway
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Dacyn
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Post by Dacyn »

La_vie_en_Wose wrote:1 movement point on grass ? Are you sure ?
Almost all units cost only 1 movepoint/tile on grass...

Free
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Post by Free »

La_vie_en_Wose wrote:
Free wrote:Umm, skeletons should cross water a little faster than most units in water, but they Skeletons (I think,) have a movement of 3 on deep, 2 on shallow and 1 on grass. So its not like water doesn't slow them somewhat.
1 movement point on grass ? Are you sure ?
If you're struggling with this scenario, you can always try to beat the orcs, although both times I played this campaign, I went after the Death Knight. I always had some white mages, to knock out the Knight's units.

My tactic for this scenario is to send gryphons next to the undead to slow them and to take as many villages as possible while making my way next to the orcish leader through the mountains.
Also, now that I'm looking at the map, I'm not exactly sure why a skeleton would even want to cross water here. You seem closer to the water, than the undead anyway. If a skeleton trys to cross the deep water, attack! They defend at 10%, so your hits will almost be automatic.
I think they cross water to gain terrain on Konrad's team, preventing from crossing water with bridges. I didn't know they had only 10% in deep water. Thanks for the tip anyway Meanwhile, how could I attack them, I can't see them in deep water.
If this scenario has changed drastically since I played it last, ignore my last 2 paragraphs.
Ok. Thank you anyway
I think you are little confused. Skeletons are just like humans, or elves or any other land unit, except they are undead. So 1 mp for grass is right, I think. (Or have I lost my mind?)

I wouldn't try to go after the orcs. Instead, (like I said before) go after the undead. Why? Well, for one thing, you won't have the problem of having enemies sneaking up on your back, which apparently is happening. You can easily block the orcs from coming after you by sending a few units to block off the bridge. Plus, it will take the orcs a long time to get out of the mountain and it will take you a long time to get in and kill the leader. Then use a couple gryphons to steal villages from the mountains.

You can attack submerged units if they are on the edge of the water, because they just moved there, and you know they have to be there, unless it's a deathblade, who get 2 deep water moves (Maximum) in a turn. (Sorry that sentence was a little bit badly said.) You just need to make some mental notes of where they are. If you have any mermaid initiates (I'm guessing you don't) use them to kill the skeletons in the in the water. Initiates are deadly to skeletons.

Both times I played this scenario, I remember the the computer recruiting a lot of wraiths, not many skeletons.

I hope this helps, and I hope you beat the scenario!!! Good luck. :)

williamager
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Post by williamager »

Free wrote: I wouldn't try to go after the orcs. Instead, (like I said before) go after the undead. Why? Well, for one thing, you won't have the problem of having enemies sneaking up on your back, which apparently is happening. You can easily block the orcs from coming after you by sending a few units to block off the bridge. Plus, it will take the orcs a long time to get out of the mountain and it will take you a long time to get in and kill the leader. Then use a couple gryphons to steal villages from the mountains.
Killing the Orcish leader is better for long term strategy, since the gain that one can obtain from the next scenario is much better with that choice. My strategy for the scenario was to recruit four or five silver mages, six gryphons, and a shyde or two. I moved most of the gryphons off to the mountains east of the orcs to draw them off, while one or two gryphons waited to capture the village near the keep. After the main force of orcs started attacking my gryphons, I took the village, and before the orcs could return to the keep, had my silver mages kill the leader. This allowed me to finish the scenario very quickly.

podunk
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Post by podunk »

Going after the undead in "A Choice Must Be Made" is a much more viable long term strategy now that they have added the magic armor in 1.1.7(Thanks Scott!)on this path. If you give the princess the scepter of fire and the armor she is a very powerful unit that ALMA's quickly instead of someone you have protect all the time.

The undead path is a good spot to level up some mages (in medium, I'm just starting a campaign on hard) and take villages and build up some money. If you drive towards the undead leader the undead troops rush towards you instead of taking villages. I use Knorad and Kalenz to soften them up and mages to finish them off.

It's pretty easy to beat the Orc leader - but very slow and tedious, and it's hard to level up anyone. The Orcs tend to retreat when you have 4 or more level 3 units so it's hard to get any experience.

Plus - the Snow Plains are dull dull dull! While the Flame Sword looks neat and has a nice sound file, if you have a bunch of level 3 units it really doesn't add much to your army.

The undead path leads to the Swamp of Dread which is a very fun level, wonderful to level in and you can make a ton of money to boot.

podunk

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La_vie_en_Wose
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Post by La_vie_en_Wose »

Obviously, I have mistaken. But there was a version of Wesnoth - I'm sure about that - where some undead ( deathblade, sure ) could cross water as if they were walking on normal ground.
Nevermind.
It's interesting to read other's tactics in this scenario ! 8)
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