Any tips on knalgan defense?

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
Jike
Posts: 2
Joined: May 24th, 2018, 11:38 pm

Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by Jike » June 13th, 2018, 1:42 pm

Hello to everyone, lately I have been trying to learn how to play knalgans, although I have been struggling to perform well.

The one thing I find myself struggling the most with is organizing a proper defense, which is more often than not what I'll have to fall back into against most matchups

Dwarf units are considerably more reliable at defense when on forts, hills or mountains, although said terrain types are often scarce and spread out, leaving plenty of gaps for the enemy to bypass them and move to steal rear villages, this problem is intensified when you add the fact that dwarves are expensive and lack in mobility, which means they are more likely to leave gaps (specially when forced to stand on isolated hill/fort/mountain tiles), and that the outlaw units are considerably squishier, making them unsuitable for filling said gaps, even if they have more defense while doing it and are easily susceptible to swarming.

That brings me to another problem, swarming, with the enemy being easily able to bypass my line to steal my rear villages, I'm forced to bring my dwarves out of their preferred terrain to stop them, which often exposes them enough that they can easily get surronded and killed, and more often than not I will not be able to commit enough strength to stop the village stealer without also exposing my front villages, or being forced to place an outlaw in them, which can still be surrounded and killed, then the village taken, it happens way too often that my opponent easily surrounds my units then kills them, If I retaliate, it often is never enough to keep my opponent from having a gold advantage, this cycle tends to repeat in my games until my opponent wins

Next is the proper usage of the dwarf guardsman, while good for holding a specific tile, he isn't much of a threatening unit, and the enemy more often than not can just ignore it and go for the rest of my units while taking little damage from the guardsman, am I looking at this the wrong way?

Last point I can think from the top of my head, orcish assassins, they are way too effective at disrupting my defense with heir poison, and more often than not I don't have enough units or tight enough space to organize a proper rotation as I've seen most people suggest, to top it off most hill tiles are often next to forest tiles, which the assassin can exploit more often than not, I could place a poacher in said tiles, but it would more often than not expose them too much, giving the enemy a free kill.

The combination of the above points almost always leads to my defeat, my fate being marked the moment the first village is stolen, I feel I need to be really cautious, but excessive cautiouness often gives my opponent the advantage, I seriously need a paradgim shift and I don't know where is the best way to start, any help will be appreciated.

On a more memey topic, what wicked witch did the Kalgan Alliance piss off that cursed them with horrible RNG when it most matters?

RolfDhew
Posts: 46
Joined: March 4th, 2018, 11:41 am

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by RolfDhew » June 13th, 2018, 5:15 pm

I am not a veteran player with knalgan, but I find that when one has a mixed force of dwarves and outlaws, then it is easier to take advantage of the different terrain types. On large maps try to use footpads to capture as many villages as possible, try to continuously capture villages without holding them, this will force the enemy to keep capturing villages, that will disperse their units a little bit.
The dwarven guardsman is mostly good at blocking tight areas and they excel against calvary units.
Orcish assasins are tricky, maybe you should try attacking them with poachers or bandits, they have far more attacks than assasins, assasins are vulnerable to melee units, especially those with multiple attacks.
That's all I can think of, hope it helps!

enclave
Posts: 885
Joined: December 15th, 2007, 8:52 am

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by enclave » June 14th, 2018, 1:34 pm

same here, I'm not a veteran player, specially when we talk about ladder type of maps. And to be honest knalgan are considered as possibly most unpreferred faction for such maps, but many people manage to do well :)
1) There is a replay server, where you can find games and watch replays on how other people do: http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.14/
(this is for 1.14 wesnoth version, but if you change number to 1.12 then you can use 1.12 replays from many previous years too, although you would NEED to download older wesnoth 1.12 too). To watch replay download save files to your savegame folder (on windows it is about here: C:\Users\Admin\Documents\My Games\Wesnoth1.14\saves ), and then open wesnoth and hit "Load" and tick "show replay".
2) This is a ladder webpage, where strongest players compete against each other and leave replays of their wins http://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/ (just go to "game history"), you can again download them and watch how others performed as dwarws...like I said many skilled players can use knalga very well.
3) My personal opinion... You probably must have birds.. they are fast and have strong retaliation damage, this is what you might use to block bad terrains if needed. I hate birds myself, on isar i would never use them, but for ladder I think this is a must. 2 birds and you can move them from one side to another when needed.. and to protect far away villages i would probably use footpads, they have 70% defense so sometimes it may take enemy a while to kill them and time of day may change.. they are very very quick to go anywhere.. of course with bad RNG they may die with 1st attack.. but that's what wesnoth is..
against assassins I wouldnt use any counter at all, dont let them hit you or have ulf in reach so he can kill it, so enemy would think twice to use it or not, or at least wouldnt be able to use it twice, 3 times, 4 times..
ideally you would just retreat when you see enemy units are overwhelming and the time of day is going to change not in your favor, before enemy can even hit.. if you have strong powers then just have ulfserker in range to kill assasin and not allow enemy to do any damage.. thiefs maybe only work against drakes at night in my experience, so i think it's a waste of time to use them on orcs. Ulf might be a very good unit to retake lost villages, with support of birds and other units... generally if you manage to hit hard at day the chaotic enemy will not try to retaliate, because the time of day is not in his favor... so if u use ulf to kick enemy out of village and then cover with something like even footpad, you are safe..

Well... too much talking from me :) my best advice is listen to my advice #1 and #2 :D forget my personal opinion :D

Computer_Player
Posts: 111
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by Computer_Player » June 15th, 2018, 1:03 am

Jike wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 1:42 pm
Hello to everyone, lately I have been trying to learn how to play knalgans, although I have been struggling to perform well.

The one thing I find myself struggling the most with is organizing a proper defense, which is more often than not what I'll have to fall back into against most matchups

Dwarf units are considerably more reliable at defense when on forts, hills or mountains, although said terrain types are often scarce and spread out, leaving plenty of gaps for the enemy to bypass them and move to steal rear villages, this problem is intensified when you add the fact that dwarves are expensive and lack in mobility, which means they are more likely to leave gaps (specially when forced to stand on isolated hill/fort/mountain tiles), and that the outlaw units are considerably squishier, making them unsuitable for filling said gaps, even if they have more defense while doing it and are easily susceptible to swarming.
When playing dwarves, because of their low mobility, proper positioning is imperative. As much as possible you want them positioned at the points that the enemy has to attack i.e. vils or the pathways thereof. This also means you want to have as much information about the enemy as possible in order to avoid blindspots. This means getting footpad or even Gryphon depending on the map to scout out the enemy. Dwarves are good at holding ground, but also remember that even they have limits and you shouldn't generally try to hold ground vs a day loyalist army for example. Retreat taking into account your mobility.
That brings me to another problem, swarming, with the enemy being easily able to bypass my line to steal my rear villages, I'm forced to bring my dwarves out of their preferred terrain to stop them, which often exposes them enough that they can easily get surronded and killed, and more often than not I will not be able to commit enough strength to stop the village stealer without also exposing my front villages, or being forced to place an outlaw in them, which can still be surrounded and killed, then the village taken, it happens way too often that my opponent easily surrounds my units then kills them, If I retaliate, it often is never enough to keep my opponent from having a gold advantage, this cycle tends to repeat in my games until my opponent wins
Why is that dwarf alone in defending that front line? You should have enough units such that attempts at bypassing will be punished severely.
Next is the proper usage of the dwarf guardsman, while good for holding a specific tile, he isn't much of a threatening unit, and the enemy more often than not can just ignore it and go for the rest of my units while taking little damage from the guardsman, am I looking at this the wrong way?
Guardsman is best at holding vils. This means that you could delay an enemy attack on a front for a few turns just by parking a guardsman in the vil that is in threat. However efficiency wise they are not as good compared to other dwarves due to the points you have mentioned. This is a strategic choice that you will have to make.
Last point I can think from the top of my head, orcish assassins, they are way too effective at disrupting my defense with heir poison, and more often than not I don't have enough units or tight enough space to organize a proper rotation as I've seen most people suggest, to top it off most hill tiles are often next to forest tiles, which the assassin can exploit more often than not, I could place a poacher in said tiles, but it would more often than not expose them too much, giving the enemy a free kill.
If you're holding ground against orcs at night, you did something wrong. Also berzerkers are great at killing assassins (also backstabbing thieves cost wise)
The combination of the above points almost always leads to my defeat, my fate being marked the moment the first village is stolen, I feel I need to be really cautious, but excessive cautiouness often gives my opponent the advantage, I seriously need a paradgim shift and I don't know where is the best way to start, any help will be appreciated.
Don't be scared, you should be mounting an offense too! Dwarves also excel at counter attack / creeping movement. Let's play a game if you see me, I'll try to point out stuff

Jike
Posts: 2
Joined: May 24th, 2018, 11:38 pm

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by Jike » June 21st, 2018, 1:14 am

Thanks for all the feedback so far, I played with Computer_Player and he showed me some good pointers on how to maintain a threatening defense then follow up with a counterattack

shevegen
Posts: 199
Joined: June 3rd, 2004, 4:35 pm

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by shevegen » August 3rd, 2018, 6:21 pm

I love the dwarvish guardsman - it's like the supertank.

Dwarven scouts are nice for mobility; fighters are both the offence and can act as tanks, though not as good as the guardsman.

Thunderers are both strong but also ... weird. It's a strange unit type. I don't like that they can shoot only once, even though they are the ones dealing most damage (I think?) in a single blow. Miss chance annoys me though - I much prefer elven units archery than dwarf archery.

Guardsman are to me like how dwarves should be. :D

Personally I prefer elves - faster movement and agility is a lot more fun to play for me, IMO.

User avatar
ResExsention
Posts: 97
Joined: March 17th, 2018, 12:00 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by ResExsention » August 17th, 2018, 9:20 pm

If I may...

- Use the guardsman line to stiffen a line. If you're experienced with the Loyalist faction, you should know that the guardsmen, stalwarts, and sentinels are the dwarves' idea of a heavy infantryman. Use guardsmen in the front lines and use any stalwarts and sentinels as a rear guard.
- Building on that, since dwarves are really only good on fairly uncommon terrain, feigned retreats and hit and run tactics are also effective, hitting the enemy on flats and forests and then retreating to more favorable terrain.
- Steelclads and thundeguards are overpowered. Group any thunderers, thunderguards, or dragonguards together and put together a guard of steelclads and fighters to protect those fragile yet powerful units. In one turn alone, if the chance to hit was always 50%, such a squad could wreck absolute havoc on enemy lines.
- Fight like the Romans. Keep your forces together, putting them into squads (centuries) led by a more powerful unit (a centurion), all coordinated and part of a bigger army (the legion). With such a strategy, you maximize the resilience of the dwarves. Place guardsmen on the outer ranks of each century (even though they don't have a hundred units) and any stalwarts on the second rank. Interval those stalwarts with anybody from the thunderer, fighter, or thug lines. If you don't have and stalwarts, more guardsmen and anybody from the ulfserker line work well, too. Coordinate each legion to achieve victory. What I like to do when fighting with this dwarvish century tactic is to spread out my flanks slightly so that they can encircle or flank any enemy units that decide to get in the way of one of my centuries. And if things become dire for the squad, you can always pull the flanks in to hold off for as long as possible; you might even be able to save them if you can get a squad there quick enough. When moving a century, don't let any units get ahead of the guardsmen in the front (sorry, the quick trait is negated with this strategy) unless you're using them as outriders to capture villages. Gryphon riders and master work great for that.
- Dwarves, though having good movement in forests, have terrible defence in them as well. The outlaws (especially the footpad and poacher lines) should be used to target any enemies in forests. Don't use any outlaws (except for the thug line) in any centuries; they're better off working in terrain that dwarves are bad in.
- Of course, even with all this resilience, no army can last forever. Take your best units and put them as a rear guard, and keep some reserve gold in case the enemies break through all of your countermeasures. This reserve gold can also be used to recruit reinforcements to help out the rest of your people on the battlefield.
- Your rear guard can also function as an effective counterattack tool. Once your forces dispatch the enemy, send in those rear guards (and your leader, if he has something like leadership or inspire and you have no other unit that has that). In PVP with fog, most of the time, enemy players may never expect such a thing. Against the AI, it's not as effective, but still effective.

And that's all I have. I hope these help you out in your mastery of the knalgan faction!
I am a ranger and my WML knives will implant themselves in your back.

Creator of the abandoned campaign Royalties Forgotten and the work in progress campaign Purger of Evil.
Maintainer of Fate of a Princess.

DwarvenRogue
Posts: 6
Joined: September 25th, 2018, 10:29 pm

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by DwarvenRogue » September 26th, 2018, 7:57 pm

I am somewhat new to the multiplayer in general but I played almost exclusively dwarfs for most of my time so far.

-I like Footpads... and Thieves... I am just gonna get that out there... :whistle:

-I agree with what was said about not being afraid to attack with dwarfs. Combinations of Fighters, Thunderers, Thiefs, Ulfs, and Poachers hold the potential for very high damage if used in a hyper-aggressive counter attacks at night. Sometimes I use this to deal so many kills that I manage to scare my opponent into retreating and regrouping, so he/she does not even counter-attack me despite the fact that I am out of position.

-In regards to protecting your villages if the opponent breaks through your lines. For 26 gold you can have 2 Thieves running around behind your lines. Normally only one scout should slip by your front lines at a time. If an entire group of units slips by you, something was wrong with your placement... or its Saurians... oh how I HATE Saurians :x . In any case, with careful positioning and scouting info from your bird, the Thieves can work together to give each other back-stab which is enough to preform a "brutal back-ally style stabbing" on any other faction's scouting unit :twisted: .

-On the subject of Footpads. I like what was said about possibly slipping one past your opponent's lines, but they also have some other uses ;) . I like to use them similarly to guardsmen only for tiles that are slightly less important. If they have +70% defense and full health, I find that they tend to survive attacks from 2-3 non-charging non magical units for one turn. They also almost always deal some counter-attack damage in retaliation when they defend. With their high move speed and low hp, they can take run away to heal and come back as needed. I find that they quickly pay for themselves in wasted attacks and defensive damage if used this way. Footpads, because of their high dodge, can also be thrown away to cover a retreating force of dwarfs if there is something there to protect that is truly worth shielding. Like 2 or 3 dwarfs high experience and low health.

-I hope my post has been informative AND entertaining. :eng:
We will descend upon the foe, we will overwhelm them, we will leave none alive! Meanwhile our guardsmen will ensure the full defense of our headquarters. We are the Footpads! We are Thursagan's fury!!

Post Reply