New Vampire Faction & Art

Make art for user-made content.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:

Feedback poll

I like recruitment that is conditionally dependent on leader
0
No votes
I think the units don't look vampiric and/or gothic enough
0
No votes
I think there are too many vampire units currently planned
0
No votes
I'd like the faction to have more support units than vampires
0
No votes
I like the proposed bloodbind mechanic
0
No votes
I like the proposed bloodpool mechanic
0
No votes
I like the idea that vampires would have indirect means of influence
0
No votes
I like the idea that there would be a lot of custom abilities
0
No votes
I'd like it if the player was only able to recruit support units, and no vampires
0
No votes
I'd like severe daytime penalties as a balancing mechanic
0
No votes
I think all vampires should start as level 2 units
1
100%
I think making vampires expensive is a good balancing mechanic
0
No votes
I think the vampire in the very red armour needs to be shorter
0
No votes
I like how this faction seems to be developing so far
0
No votes
I'd prefer it if this faction was eventually split into distinct vampire factions
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 1

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » October 5th, 2018, 8:59 pm

Note: You can select any number of options in the poll
Rewritten contents for the initial post

Briefing

This thead is for the development of this vampire faction, which so far doesn't have a name. Instead of having a separate thread in the Faction & Era development forums I'm intending to use this thread for discussing both the artwork and the gameplay mechanics. I'd like produce a faction with somewhat gothic aesthetics, but looking at the images I have drawn so far, only some of them seem to meet this kind of criteria. I'd like there to be a lot of abilities and am also considering possible resourcesystems and ways of balancing the faction. It is possible that the faction will later evolve into several distinct factions, but for now it's going to be one.. At this rate it's going to be a large faction. Next a list discussing several potential aspects and mechanics.

Recruits partially set by choice of leader unit (also random):
The choice of leader unit for the player would influence what type of units are available for recruitment. This I think could create an effect where there's more depth to the leader selection than just the units individual qualities. It could also create an effect where the faction is sort of like several factions unto itself, and thus unlock new ways to play the faction and for players to experiment. It is also a solution to the ever-growing unit pool, as the relationship between the leaderchoice and available recruits can restrict the effective number of units available to recruit.

Examples of this mechanic would be:
Having a vampire leader "Mage" would allow recruiting "Vampire Bat" (Currently no unit is named mage)
Unlocking different suppotr unit types that could thematically linked to the leader, like Japanese vampire unit could unlock 'shinobi' etc, or having similar vampires available as a block of units depending on the type of the leader.

Inclusion of support units into the faction:
I think the faction should include an array of non-vampire units that could function as the mainstay of the side in regular games, and the vampires would have more special and enhancing roles instead of being directly used as melee or ranged attackers. This of course relates to the previous point, as the types of support units can vary depending on the leader, if that motif is accepted. Currently the overall composition of the faction can vary from several support units, such as generic fighters, scouts (bat), wolf; to being entirely or mostly composed of vampire units.

Bloodbind - subjugation of minions
The name of this mechanic is still open to be redefined. When vampires recruit non-vampiric units, they could have an option to bind the non-vampiric unit, to place a bloodbind, subjugate - the core part of this mechanic involves a trade which is restricted. The vampire gains somekind of defect in the process, at the bare minimum that's a restriction that they can't place additional binds, but could also include weakened resistances etc.

The core of this mechanic is the following: The bloodbound minion gains benefits. Basically they're given a trait e.g. "minion", which gives them benefits, like weak regeneration, increased melee damage, increased resistances, an additional movement point, additional strikes and defects such as, decreased arcane resistance, decreased fire resistance, lower defense. Of course no unit would have all of these properties with the trait - or ability. The type of bloodbind available would be determined by the vampire unit, so if you recruit vampires of type A, and support units, then you can only get minion benefits related to type A.

Additionally I was thinking this minion ability's positive benefits would be determined by the range from the vampire who bound the unit. So for an example you get maximum benefits if the vampire is within 2 hex distance, 50% benefit if it's within 3 hexes, and further away the effect would disappear or reach minimum level, like 25% effect. This wouldn't have to affect the disadvantageous modifications.

Bloodpool - a resource system for special abilities
I was thinking that the vampires could have a bloodpool, which would essentially be a variable associated with the unit such as 'bloodpoints' 'max_bloodpoints' and they could recovered by succesfully hitting an opponent in melee combat, with a drain attack possibly, possibly in a probabilistic manner i.e. a succesful drain attack would also require a succesful diceroll of some sort. Resting in villages could also increase the pool, perhaps upto a maximum like 1 point. I was also thinking that you could have the maximum bloodpool increase with increasing levels for the units. (This is probably considerably easy to implement)

Custom abilities, indirect ways of influencing the outcomes
I'm enticed by the approach of trying to make the vampires capable of influencing the flow of the game indirectly, rather than enganging in simple melee or ranged combat. This could be abilities like the bloodbind, which would allow having the support units be more effective. Currently I don't have many abilities planned out, but if you have any suggestions, I would be interested in them.

Inability to recruit vampires?
One possible balancing motif for the faction - this is only applicable if the array of support units is rather wide - is that the player could not recruit vampires, but instead would be stuck with the leader unit of choice. That would allow making the faction balanced, even if the vampires had more than the usual number of special abilities. Currently I'm not a big fan of this approach, but some sort of limitations could still take place, in the form of already mentioned leader unlocked recruits perhaps.

Grave schedule penalties
For balancing the faction it would be possible that the vampires would suffer larger than normal penalties during day time. This could include essential any gameplay effect that seems thematically appropriate - defense, resistances, movement points, special abilities, bloodpoints etc.

Making vampires expensive and/or start as level 2 units
Another balancing motif would be to make the vampires costly, or costly and level2, that way the player would be stuck with having to recruit more support units, and less vampire units.

Any suggestions about different kinds of special abilities would be welcome, as a well as all kinds of ideas and feedback about the artwork.



Current status of the unit tree:
advancement_tree_2.png
Last edited by eurydike on October 15th, 2018, 11:11 am, edited 15 times in total.

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Sorry for posting reply

Post by eurydike » October 7th, 2018, 6:00 am

Sorry for posting reply to my own thread, but due to the imagelimit I'm making a comment so I can attach additional images to the thread....... :whistle:

Here's a vampire with clothing for high class japanese:
vampire_6.png
vampire_6.png (3.17 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Here's another one with partially roman costume, and some artifacts:
vampire_7.png
vampire_7.png (3.27 KiB) Viewed 342 times

User avatar
ghype
Posts: 302
Joined: December 13th, 2016, 4:43 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by ghype » October 7th, 2018, 2:17 pm

for showing more than 5 sprite in one post, you could create a grid system showing multiple sprite.

as for your vampire in the first sprite, i think they are pretty convincing, you can see they are vampires. They are still not wesnoth-ish but that is not a bad thing. it means you developed your own style and I guess I couldn create sprites from srcatch with such details.

as for the last two sprites, they seem a bit off if they should fid in the vampire theme. you could consider creating another faction with those since they look very good, but do not fid with the vampires.

on a last note, if you plan to actually make an add-on with these, you should try to include TC at some point to your sprite.
post sprites & stuff every day: ghype's Daily Art
destroying enemy castle here: Orcish Castle - Destroyed - work in progress

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » October 7th, 2018, 2:54 pm

ghype wrote:
October 7th, 2018, 2:17 pm
for showing more than 5 sprite in one post, you could create a grid system showing multiple sprite.

as for your vampire in the first sprite, i think they are pretty convincing, you can see they are vampires. They are still not wesnoth-ish but that is not a bad thing. it means you developed your own style and I guess I couldn create sprites from srcatch with such details.

as for the last two sprites, they seem a bit off if they should fid in the vampire theme. you could consider creating another faction with those since they look very good, but do not fid with the vampires.

on a last note, if you plan to actually make an add-on with these, you should try to include TC at some point to your sprite.
I think you're right that the characters don't look very vampiric, and so it does a raise a question of can they convincingly be labeled as such, or if they should have some more visible cues of being vampires.. I think they might do as they are. Actually I kind of forgot about TC at first, but since I had made a couple units without them, I thought I'll think about it once I have some more units done and see if there's a way to like have something in common in the way they're team colored.. Thanks for the reminder though. I'll probably do some more along these lines.. I should try to probably look at ways of making advancement lines for these units, since they're so different can't say that one could advance from the other. With regards to that current idea is that I'll try and make new versions that make sense in terms of progression, like the vampire woman with the roman costume, there could be perhaps a roman woman with less fancier attire.. Also thinking about some other areas of origin for the appearances, like the victorian dress could be English, the Roman could go with Byzantine styles, the Teutonic woman could have some other germanic units around, I also want to think about something from the East, and then there's Japanese high class woman, obvious choice would be to look for ordinary outfits.... I'm not sure. But I like these pictures, I'm surprised I could do them. Especially the 'evolution' of the minotaurs (in the other thread)... Well I don't know. Hmm anyone got any suggestions about what to do with this vampire faction? :|

User avatar
Edwylm
Posts: 96
Joined: August 24th, 2015, 11:18 pm

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by Edwylm » October 7th, 2018, 5:15 pm

Well I would suggest that the sprites right now look like upper classes units which you could get around the "vampire look" with that excuse.

User avatar
Heindal
Posts: 893
Joined: August 11th, 2011, 9:25 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by Heindal » October 7th, 2018, 6:35 pm

These look nice. Critic however is that you don't see the weapon and equipment. You should add a shadow to the blades.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » October 8th, 2018, 10:18 am

Heindal wrote:
October 7th, 2018, 6:35 pm
These look nice. Critic however is that you don't see the weapon and equipment. You should add a shadow to the blades.
I'll try and add some outlines if possible.. but it might be difficult especially for the 3rd image, because the direction the sword is pointing at is difficult... In the meanwhile I made an another japanese style female vampire image.. The idea here is that this one will advance into the previous one. For conveniency I'll place both images to this comment

Now first level also done:
vampire_9.png
vampire_9.png (1.93 KiB) Viewed 235 times
So she will advance:
vampire_8.png
vampire_8.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 249 times
She's the higher level one:
vampire_6.png
vampire_6.png (3.16 KiB) Viewed 248 times
Actually I just tried adding a greengrass background for the first and third image, I think it was probably that the forum background being very light makes them hard to discern (apparently I got the shadow layer on the ground behind the grass for these):
vampire_greengrass.png
vampire_greengrass.png (10.99 KiB) Viewed 245 times
vampire_3_greengrass.png
vampire_3_greengrass.png (11.01 KiB) Viewed 245 times

User avatar
Heindal
Posts: 893
Joined: August 11th, 2011, 9:25 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by Heindal » October 13th, 2018, 11:26 am

I like them. Try them on different undergrounds, for example darker or grey undergrounds or create units and test them in a live game.
I also like the geisha ladies. There not many civilians in this game.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

User avatar
ghype
Posts: 302
Joined: December 13th, 2016, 4:43 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by ghype » October 13th, 2018, 12:15 pm

i dont recall wether you made the decision to split these into two factions or keep em as one big multicultural vampire faction.
if you want to keep them as one faction, there as big difference betweem the head sizes of the armored and eastern vampires.
just on a side note.
post sprites & stuff every day: ghype's Daily Art
destroying enemy castle here: Orcish Castle - Destroyed - work in progress

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » October 13th, 2018, 12:26 pm

Heindal wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 11:26 am
I like them. Try them on different undergrounds, for example darker or grey undergrounds or create units and test them in a live game.
I also like the geisha ladies. There not many civilians in this game.
They're not Geisha ladies, but of course it's impossible to tell without knowledge on the matter. Before drawing the images I did brief study online on these outfits from a website I found about historic costumes in Japan. The first two of the japanese vampire line are commoners in outfits from Edo era. The third is a young unmarried noblewoman and the fourth is an attire for the royal court.

Here's the website I used as a reference for the images:
http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/index.htm

And here are the actual references:
4 lvl - http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/1.htm
4 lvl - http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/14.htm
3 lvl - http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/20.htm
2 lvl - http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/8.htm
1 lvl - http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/4.htm
1 lvl - http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/3.htm

For comparison here's an image for an example geisha attire from the same website:
http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/31.htm

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » October 13th, 2018, 12:30 pm

ghype wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 12:15 pm
i dont recall wether you made the decision to split these into two factions or keep em as one big multicultural vampire faction.
if you want to keep them as one faction, there as big difference betweem the head sizes of the armored and eastern vampires.
just on a side note.
Any such difference in the headsize is just due to.. umm well my lack of talent, difficulty of having a limited number of pixels to use, and also having more emphasis on different types of hair. Is there some particular difference you find most weird?

User avatar
ghype
Posts: 302
Joined: December 13th, 2016, 4:43 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by ghype » October 13th, 2018, 12:32 pm

I see you did your homework. isn't it quite exciting doing all these researches?

I did the same for my vikings, trying to make the as accurate as possible, researches what armor,weapons they prefered, what social strucutures they are, fighting strategies which I tried to implement in abilities and specials and so on ... it was very exciting.
post sprites & stuff every day: ghype's Daily Art
destroying enemy castle here: Orcish Castle - Destroyed - work in progress

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » October 13th, 2018, 12:34 pm

ghype wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 12:32 pm
I see you did your homework. isn't it quite exciting doing all these researches?

I did the same for my vikings, trying to make the as accurate as possible, researches what armor,weapons they prefered, what social strucutures they are, fighting strategies which I tried to implement in abilities and specials and so on ... it was very exciting.
It is! Agreed! ^_^

User avatar
Heindal
Posts: 893
Joined: August 11th, 2011, 9:25 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by Heindal » Yesterday, 9:40 am

eurydike wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 12:26 pm
Heindal wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 11:26 am
I like them. Try them on different undergrounds, for example darker or grey undergrounds or create units and test them in a live game.
I also like the geisha ladies. There not many civilians in this game.
They're not Geisha ladies, but of course it's impossible to tell without knowledge on the matter. Before drawing the images I did brief study online on these outfits from a website I found about historic costumes in Japan. The first two of the japanese vampire line are commoners in outfits from Edo era. The third is a young unmarried noblewoman and the fourth is an attire for the royal court.
Shame on me, I should have known better. That's my uncultivated comment for now :lol:.
These costumes reminded me of Ghost in the Shell "Geisha-Bots" and the costumes used in the film 'Geisha'.
One is easy to be manipulated by these pictures. I became a victim of framing or 'manipulation by affiliation'.

You might want to see the 'Samurai Champloo', which plays in the edo era, but mixed with modern slang.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_Champloo
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

eurydike
Posts: 39
Joined: March 20th, 2018, 1:43 am

Re: New Vampire Faction & Art

Post by eurydike » Yesterday, 4:22 pm

Currently consider label and abilities for the rogue line and the other lines as well, but for this comment I'll put up some thoughts about the rogue.. Also haven't figured out an appropriate label for the level3 rogue, but level2 can be just.. rogue. Vampire Rogue that is.
vampire_16_rogue.png
vampire_16_rogue.png (1.69 KiB) Viewed 32 times
Rogue (level 2)
Concealment
Skirmish at night (yet to be named)
Sabotage of some sort, currently thinking they could place somekind of disadvantage on units in villages
Advances to illusionist
vampire_17_illusionist.png
vampire_17_illusionist.png (1.9 KiB) Viewed 32 times
Illusionist (level 3)
Adv. Concealment - also hides at hexes adjacent to villages if it's night
Skirmish at night (yet to be named)
Sabotage of some sort (same as above)
Also receives some defensive ability, such that opponents have less strikes (similar to Deep Elves stardust for an example, but called illusion instead)
Also some sort of illusion type debuff that weakens opponent in some way (such as all adjacent enemies get -10% cth for an example)

Any thoughts about these? Currently the idea is that the rogue is directly recruitable as level2 and there's no level1 unit.

Post Reply