Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby zookeeper » July 4th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Sudipta wrote:But then its strange how little land has been colonized in all the years of the kingdom, not just by the humans but by all known races.

What would lead you to make such an assumption? Obviously the rest of the continent is colonized by someone, and probably mostly by already known races.
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Ephraim » July 5th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Hello. As I said before (read it on History of Vindalf) I think there should be a Great Magic Academy for my campaign in the pink point, inside the magenta box:
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The Great Library of WML is huge and extense. I must find the book who will lead me to create a perfect campaign.
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Caladbolg » July 5th, 2017, 6:34 pm

A few thoughts on the matter:

I support the idea of expanding the map, mainly because it'd provide some consistency between UMCs and it'd be a nice addition to lore. I don't think specifying features of the continent would be limiting to the UMC developers as you can always add another continent in the mix.
If the map is being expanded for the purpose of providing semi-canonical locations for UMCs or non-mainline races then it should take into account the existing ones, i.e. the map should accommodate the races and campaigns that are already made, with preference for the ones that are most fleshed out.

Whatever territory you introduce to the map, new campaigns and races will be made to populate it and some older ones might be changed to fit in. Then it'd make sense to add territory in such a way that the existing high-quality content doesn't need to change too much to fit in. As an example, revansurik's dragon trilogy is a high quality set of campaigns, featuring new factions and partly takes place on the far east. So maybe it'd be a good idea to take some of that into consideration.
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Xalzar » July 6th, 2017, 9:43 am

Caladbolg wrote:If the map is being expanded for the purpose of providing semi-canonical locations for UMCs or non-mainline races then it should take into account the existing ones, i.e. the map should accommodate the races and campaigns that are already made, with preference for the ones that are most fleshed out.


About this matter, i think a starting point could be to collect in a list all the UMCs we want to consider while expanding the map, to make things more organized. This way, we'll have solid grounds knowing what is needed and how to complete the puzzle without excessive discrepancies.

I think the most important criteria for chosen UMCs would be popularity, status (mantained is mandatory imo, complete is most preferable), congruence with the established setting (maybe an hypotetical Alien faction with spaceship is too much; instead, an UMC which has already connection with mainline content is welcome). Some UMCs are expressively not even set on Irdya iirc (e.g. the Orbivm one).

The list should not be too big with these criteria, and I think it won't take too much time to compile.

If we agree on this procedure, I can start collect some.
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby zookeeper » July 6th, 2017, 9:56 am

Xalzar wrote:About this matter, i think a starting point could be to collect in a list all the UMCs we want to consider while expanding the map, to make things more organized. This way, we'll have solid grounds knowing what is needed and how to complete the puzzle without excessive discrepancies.

I think the most important criteria for chosen UMCs would be popularity, status (mantained is mandatory imo, complete is most preferable), congruence with the established setting (maybe an hypotetical Alien faction with spaceship is too much; instead, an UMC which has already connection with mainline content is welcome). Some UMCs are expressively not even set on Irdya iirc (e.g. the Orbivm one).

The list should not be too big with these criteria, and I think it won't take too much time to compile.

If we agree on this procedure, I can start collect some.

Yes, please do.
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Xalzar » July 12th, 2017, 9:57 am

zookeeper wrote:Yes, please do.


Sure thing. Here I am with the results of my research.

I've analysed and discarded the campaigns listed below, the most common reasons being "serious incompatibility with established canon" (also some of them were afflicted by incredible power creep :shock: ) and "no need for an extended map" (some are even only lightly set in a location). One or two were not quite complete.
-A New Order
-Swamplings
-Inky's Quest
-Affably Evil
-A Beastly Tale
-A Rough Life
-A Vision Blinded
-Amaranthine Stone
-Fate of a Princess
-White Troll
-Saving Elensefar
-Soldier of Wesnoth
-Legend of the Invincibles (this has many problems, but perhaps it could suggest us new map features on the east)

And these are the campaigns which could help:
-A Song of Fire: it has problems with canonicity and power creep, but it provides locations and cultures east of Lintanir Forest;
-Flight to Freedom: it is IMO quite messy but it clearly highlights the need to set at least Morogor and the Isle of Storms in place;

I've also looked at many lore snippets of popular factions, and I observed this:
-Aragwaithi are so much popular they are used ignoring the boundaries of the established timeline (how much is established though, in regard to this faction, really? :hmm: ); I think we should consider expanding their role in Irdya's history which is now restricted after the Fall giving them a place east of Lintanir.
-Windsongs are quite interesting as well, but they are often used far from their supposed location in the frozen north.
-Era of Strife is perhaps one the most connected to the canon lore; I remember that a previous attempt to expand the map considered many geographical features suggested by this era.
-Archaic Era: I have problems understanding this era, it seems connected but also not (I think it breaks a lot of lore). I didn't analyse the relative campaigns for this reasons. Help! :augh:

Also, was there a campaign named Silver Lands? Someone knows if it's still mantained?

If you have suggestion or don't agree with what I wrote, let me know! I know that my work can be improved massively, I did what I could with the time I've got. ^_^
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Computer_Player » July 12th, 2017, 5:59 pm

Bitron wrote:
WTrawi wrote:Wow, just seen this thread and I... I can't tell how glad I am to see it! :lol: By the way I recently made this (all of eliddel's works put together)


Araca is new to me. Is that where the Khalifate are from?


If my research is correct it is from the Battle for Meridia project an old (old) project of which Khalifate was supposed to be part of.

Or perhaps this one:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=31838&start=105ps


I have created a thread for Khalifate resources (this thread and the BfM thread is included too) which may be useful :)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=46564

For campaigns I suggest Oath of allegiance / Return from the abyss
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby skeptical_troll » July 12th, 2017, 10:48 pm

I don't know how many changes it's possible to ask and where in the continent, but I'll show what could be useful for my UMC. When I wrote my campaign (return from the abyss) I've been quite vague about the geography, in part exactly because there wasn't a map of the continent farther east, partly because the main character is kind of lost. However, if I quickly draw something consistent with the text, this is what I have:
Spoiler:
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Vulpine » July 13th, 2017, 7:41 pm

I don't have anything really constructive to add, but I thought I'd mention that I have been laboring under the impression that the Lintanir and Aethenwood were considerably larger, not ending as soon as they left the visible map, probably from reading the descriptions somewhere. Considerably larger, as in the visible portions on the map are less than half of its entirety. Is it just my overactive imagination, or is that what the people writing the descriptions had in mind?

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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Ephelemi » October 6th, 2017, 11:36 am

I like the overall idea of a big map with vague geographical features for campaigns to be placed in. However, I think these features shouldn't be arbitrarily placed, but rather be placed in such a way so they make sense. For example, as somebody previously mentioned, mountains shouldn't be blobs somewhere on the map, but rather mountainranges like the Alps, the Rockys, the Ural, the Himalaya or any other real mountain ranges. I think the best way to find a fitting composition is by looking at real maps (in the right scale of course). Something else that seems all over the place are deserts. First of all, I assume all of these are supposed to be sandy deserts? If you look at the real world again, you see that most deserts (or desertlike climatic areas) are very large. The Sahara for example is where it is, because there is a huge landmass to the south that is never crossed by rain, because it is also very hot. And the Coriolis effect in the northern hemisphere always pushes clouds in the north of it away (or at least i think so). The central asiatic deserts and steppes are where they are because there are huge landmasses to all sides and so on. An interesting map doesn't have to be chequered with every colour at the disposal.
So if I were to make a map I would start with the rough size and the climatic zones. Next I would draw the coastlines and the mountaineous ranges. Next up is the general climate in the different parts, e.g. if you have a map like the United States where there is a big mountain range in the west, it automatically leads to the eastern part of those mountains to be very dry. The great plains then have a very continental climate with large plains and deserts. Further to the east it gets more humid again with more forests and water. Swamps would be in areas where it rains too much, like before cloudbraking mountains. For an example, historically the region directly north of the Alps used to be quite swampy. I think the swamp in the Wesnoth map below the Heart mountains would fit that description, also with that great river rounding it to the south.
Please don't understand this as a rant, it's just that I think a big map of the great continent could have a much greater potential.
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Re: Let's (try to) expand the great continent!

Postby Xalzar » October 6th, 2017, 3:45 pm

Given that I agree wholeheartedly with all your points, I add another point to that:
- since we are talking about a world with magic so powerful that could raise two more suns (see Under the Burning Suns, one of the suns remained there and the other fell and caused a cataclysm), we can accept some exceptions to the laws of climatology. I'd keep them to a minimum, yes, but they are possible in this world and some present inconsistencies could be explained by magic (UMCs or, even better, mainline lore snippets could explore this subject). :eng:

As an example, I think it is interesting that the extensive use of necromancy / presence of the undead generally causes the terrain to become swampy... :hmm:
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