Unfinished portraits

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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » April 8th, 2017, 3:31 am

Yes i use gimp also, but i don't do much with shading or 'actual' drawing. I only use the free-select-tool to cut parts off of some portraits and paste them onto others :whistle:

I also find the eraser very helpful :P

Considering you have only been working on shading for such a short time you have done a great job! :D
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby beetlenaut » April 8th, 2017, 6:19 pm

Vulpine wrote:and my trackpad
Any artist will tell you that it's really hard to get good results with a mouse, but I've never heard anyone even mention a trackpad because the idea is just absurd. You are probably hurting your work (and the development of your skills, if you care) by using such a poor tool.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby Vulpine » April 8th, 2017, 8:49 pm

I truly appreciate your concern. But I am doing this for fun, not because I think I can do these portraits the justice they deserve. If I do, that's a bonus!

Besides which, if I had one of those electronic doohickeys that people draw on with electronic brushes, I would have to learn how to use it, and I would rather learn how to use actual physical brushes etc. instead, especially after watching Chill with Bob Ross :)

You are probably hurting your work (and the development of your skills, if you care) by using such a poor tool.

Just out of curiosity, what aspects of my work and skills am I hurting? I know little about drawing, (and can barely draw convincing stick figures), and it doesn't hurt to get as much knowledge out of this project as I can :)

EDIT

I got a little bit more done. Namely,
I changed the shirt color.
slayercopy~shading3.png
slayercopy~shading3.png (58.83 KiB) Viewed 788 times

Probably should have asked before finishing the arm, but I can probably just reverse the process I used to get the colors back to what they were.
What do you think of the new color? Could it use a bit more brown? Do you think the green was better?

I will get around to the hair eventually (and possibly the skin as well), but it is probably going to be the last thing I do on this portrait. I want to finish everything else, and take my time figuring out how to emulate the illusion of hair. A rather daunting task for me :)

@beetlenaut (I'm trying to fix my poorly-worded post here :oops: ):
First off, I did not sketch this portrait myself, but you probably know that already. I'm stating this mostly for my peace of mind.
Now, I would never have dreamed of getting this LoD a month ago. In my opinion I have progressed quite well (considering my skill level), as far as shading goes. Admittedly, being able to shade without having a sketch to color in doesn't do me much good. But I don't ever expect to put enough time into drawing to be any good at it.
As to hurting my work, I honestly don't see how. It's not like I can do any better with an e-brush, even if I had one :)
Currently the only way I can imagine it hurting my skill development is not knowing how to use proper tools (which includes not being able to use any of the features they provide, and making it harder to do continuous lines (and working on larger areas at a time), among other things), but I can't see myself using any of the stuff I learn in the foreseeable future. :(
So, I guess I can see how it would hurt my skill development, but that wouldn't really affect my work at this point?

Again, I truly appreciate that you went out of your way to try and help me, but I don't fully understand, and would like to.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » April 14th, 2017, 10:42 pm

:D Sorry for not posting sooner. But i really like the brown on the shirt it (in my opinion) is a definite improvement. However, i personally do not think it matters whether you want to draw brown or green both will look very good! Also the lines (folds) you have drawn in the shirt give it nice detail. Also i think it is good to wait and do the hair and skin once the portrait is shaded. Then i think it will be easy to see what color looks best with the hair!

Again great work!
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby Vulpine » April 15th, 2017, 9:41 pm

The_Gnat wrote::D Sorry for not posting sooner.

Not to worry! Probably just as well, since I hardly got anything done.

Zamburrgryvnääzdaz- haz ẅrüẗḧäkh abgruz
slayercopy~shading4.png
slayercopy~shading4.png (152.04 KiB) Viewed 713 times

As you can see, what I have accomplished needs more work. The shirt in particular is going to be tough for me to capture, and I'll want to put a few more folds in the pant leg, then add detail (dirt, wrinkles etc.) to make it more realistic. I'll also have to clean up the knives' lines a bit before shading them. Then the rest of the cloak and everything else I've been meaning to do.

Just so you know where I'm at.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » April 16th, 2017, 8:37 pm

Yeah it definitely needs more work but I really like where it is going, and he certainly is starting to look like a assassin! 8)
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby GunChleoc » April 19th, 2017, 3:31 pm

beetlenaut wrote:
Vulpine wrote:and my trackpad
Any artist will tell you that it's really hard to get good results with a mouse, but I've never heard anyone even mention a trackpad because the idea is just absurd. You are probably hurting your work (and the development of your skills, if you care) by using such a poor tool.

I'm curious why you think that a trackpad is so much worse than a mouse. I personally think it actually sucks somewhat less.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby Vulpine » April 24th, 2017, 6:58 pm

In case you were wondering, I haven't been involved in any tragic accidents, and am still working (albeit slowly) on the orc.

Oẗhbääzäkh yuth grohzuburyyrv gorzbääzäkhryvgröḧḧwög
slayercopy~shading-4.5.png
The brown is kinda painful with the black background...

The brown sticks out on the black background a bit too much for my liking, but I'll fix that later, as it probably requires little actual work and I like procrastinating :whistle:

I've been working on the lines so they aren't quite so obvious, and so that the detail isn't quite so muddled.

I'm eventually going to have to adjust some of the lighting effects to get a consistent light source, though I'm not sure whether I should do that sooner or later...

At my current rate, I wouldn't expect it to be done for a good long while :oops:

[edit]
I got most of it shaded here. The lack of consistent lighting bugs me, so I'll have to go over it again at some point.
Hazmüz ryvbzur y zubyuhvogurrz.
slayercopy~shading5.png
Mostly shaded with a couple of glaring exceptions.
slayercopy~shading5.png (119.66 KiB) Viewed 513 times

I think I'm just about ready to get back to the head-neck area.

If you have the time, could you open the picture in gimp and mess with the skin color until you have a shade you like? (You can select both the unshaded neck and the shaded face for samples of how it would look shaded and unshaded). The reason for this is I am horrible at picking colors in general, and skin color even more so. (Or you could leave it to me for the 'practice' :lol: )

Aside from that, what are the biggest problems that need fixing? (other than not being completely shaded)
[/edit]
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » April 28th, 2017, 6:49 am

Good job it is looking very good now! As for things that still need improvement i would suggest:

First and most importantly the straps that go across his left side look odd, somehow they make him look very thin... i don't know what you could do about that but it suddenly ( i didn't notice before) seems wrong :hmm: sorry i can not be more helpful, maybe you could add to his torso?

Here are other minor things i noticed:

- The left should, (though it has been shaded) seems not quite correct, maybe add more different colors of shading, or more lines
- The coat in the background looks great! but should probably be a bit darker since it is concealed from the light by his body
- His left hand, though shaded looks unreal for some reason... it almost looks square, maybe more curved shading would help?
- The colar that can be seen directly to the left of his neck looks too light, it should be shaded or darkened or both
- His right leg also should be darker because of how the lighting seems to be

Also the main areas that need work are obviously the unshaded areas, beside the neck:

- The axe head and blade look not fully shaded, similarly the dagger on his left arm and the dagger case on his left side and the dagger on his back look still unshaded.
- His knees seem unshaded also and the back of his hood, but i assume you realize that

Also as for a color i would suggest either the gray color seen here:

Spoiler:


Or a tan color, similar but less yellow to what you have used:

Spoiler:


I don't know which would look better but i imagine both would look good on such a good portrait! (maybe it would be better to use the tan, it would then contrast more against the dark clothing)

Like you said a lot still needs to be done, but i think it is turning out very well!

Also Häz zubyuhvogurrz dyzakḧdaz ryvdhräm. Dazöthürrg varrdazyẅruthrabvb bårghrüz häzöthzüümgärdaz ydaz vüürbnyz gzÿv hẅoggär ydaz zambhwög. Yuth häz oẗhbääzäkh gorzbääzäkhryvgröḧuth dazorv zamburrggorznåzgnyz rupbzur gorzmuz øẗhbyzḧẅrüẗh börẗbgäz brüüz rupgÿz. Rḧÿgh thürughul gyz ruzgävrdazakh årrz öthgyzhaz zamburrgoẗhburddaz zåḧrnazg dyzbaazbörz nuzzÿb zubbhak gorzdürth zørdgöhvrozbbräv.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby Vulpine » April 29th, 2017, 8:38 pm

All I did here was change the skin color. (Hmm, maybe I fiddled for a few seconds with the strap, but I don't really remember :hmm: )
U'öth hydvybvmaåzryv bgäz abgruz oẗhvohzgorzdaz :(
slayercopy_skintest.png
slayercopy_skintest.png (138.11 KiB) Viewed 447 times
I am really really awful with picking colors. Really. So please let me know if I need to keep trying with the skin. I want to get this right.

About the other problems:
-Could you clarify which shoulder? I assume you mean his right, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
-I had intended to have a lesser frontal light source, hence the highlights, but I am still figuring it out. So thanks for reminding me :)
-(Nothing really to clarify; his left hand is on the left.)
-Are you talking about the bit of the cloak coming over his right shoulder (left to us)? It's a bit unclear to me.
-Ah, that's the other thing I did. (again, I had intended to have an extra frontal light source, but am not sure how that's going to work.)

-The shading for the blades was meant as a placeholder until I could figure out how to give them that metallic look.
-His left knee was done rather haphazardly :whistle: And his right wasn't done at all. About the hood: I wasn't happy with the way the rest of it was done, and I was going to erase it and start over, so I figured why waste time and effort on something that was going to be erased anyway?

Myrbruuzäkhdaz! U gḧurdaz ryvabgakh gzÿv bårghrüz dazduvz dazöthürrg zørdöthdüwzanr börẗbgäz gryzzururznyzakh häz næåz zubyuhyd gḧurdaz urzzüürd yuth arzybort äkhbḧyvnyz'daz anruzambdaz nuz zubyuhyd, yuth bårgzørgh häz thurürhrrüuzdüwzdgÿb bääzzørddrübakhbrav, gorzurrz U brüüzryvbzur gzÿv. :P

Thanks for the list! I'm at the point where I want it to be over already so I can do something else, but this is a good exercise in pushing on to the finish line. :)
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » April 29th, 2017, 10:39 pm

I gave a long list but personally i believe not that much really still needs be done! I think that the new skin color is really good!

Also about your questions:

- I actually mean the "right" shoulder. The one with the cloak that is nearest to you. The white highlights look good but it does not look detailed enough, maybe add more different colors of shading, or more lines

- Also the second question you had was about the cloak on his left. Here is a picture.
Cloak part (left to us, right to him)
image.png
image.png (74.5 KiB) Viewed 438 times


Also if you ever start getting annoyed with drawing this portrait it is perfectly reasonable to stop. If its not fun then you shouldn't do it. :D But at the same time i recommend you don't "pause" or "take a brake" because chances are high you won't start again ;)

The portrait doesn't have to be perfect, personally i believe after the face and neck are done only minor other changes actually need to be made, and you shouldn't feel obligated to do more than that.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby Vulpine » May 1st, 2017, 3:31 am

Here is the progress I made since my last post.
Gödrzurbzurmuz: 'Öthnyz bårgdazäkh bårgnyz gorzmuz ruzdyzyanr, gorzurrz nyzzuv grohmärg gorzmuz anrdrub.'
slayercopy~shading6.png
slayercopy~shading6.png (119.32 KiB) Viewed 407 times
As you can see, I have saved his mask for last. If worse comes to worst I can always put the old shading back on. But I hope it doesn't come to that.

The_Gnat wrote:I gave a long list but personally I believe not that much really needs to be done! I think the new skin color is really good!

I must say I'm a bit relieved :) I picked the most awful orange color for the lesser highlights. I'm guessing something from my pixel-art excursions is responsible. To quote Jetrel:
Part of a rather long entry by Jetrel.
Jetrel wrote:The grand secret to doing crazy coloring is that as long as you get the luminosity right, you really can go crazy with the colors - and this is NOT given the caveat: "within reason". Seriously; go wild. You can go way beyond what seems legal, and the piece will still generally work if you just get the brightness right. (If it doesn't, it's trivial to "rein in" and return it to sane colors, because hey - it's pixel art.

More specifically, the green entry was because metals, especially brass and gold often tend towards greenish (also, dark yellow, which we see as greenish) tones in their shadows. Also, the other thing with the green is environmental lighting; ingame, the dragon often shows up on grass (the rest of the time it'd be on brown cave stones).

But probably the biggest thing is that green is a contrasting color to purple; pairing contrasting colors like purple and green, blue and yellow, blue and red will result in a "vibrating edge". A vibrating edge like that tends to be annoying if it's used in huge areas (imagine a primary-blue billboard with primary red letters - ouch), but when you use it for little bits of shading and such on pixel art, it gives it a sort of sparkle and shine. Generally speaking, that's been one of my big attractions to pixel art; the bizarre "fire/sparkle" it has, that most large-scale art doesn't.

The_Gnat wrote:Also if you ever start getting annoyed with drawing this portrait it is perfectly reasonable to stop. If its not fun then you shouldn't do it. :D But at the same time i recommend you don't "pause" or "take a brake" because chances are high you won't start again ;)

Who said anything about not being fun? :twisted: I'm enjoying it, but one can only do something for so long before becoming fed up, even if it remains fun. (especially if said person has an insufferably short attention span... :whistle: )

So: I think the hands could use a bit more work, as could some of the weapons (but weapons are really low priority for me).
I'm not satisfied with his left shoulder, but I'm not sure what else I should do. I'll take care of it along with the mask.
His shirt is ugly. I'm hoping that it'll be just dark enough that the highlights around it will attract the viewer's eyes away from it :D
I may have to make minor adjustments to the neck; I had to look in a mirror for reference, and I'm not sure I got the angle quite right.
I don't think I darkened the leg, though I may have already. If not, it's the work of a moment to do so.

Is there anything you'd like to add? I'm expecting the next update or two to bring the orc to an end- er, bring the coloring process to a finish.
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » May 5th, 2017, 9:29 pm

I don't believe there is anything else to add, and i look forward to seeing the next update!
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby Vulpine » May 6th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Okay then, here is what I've accomplished. I don't know if it's just me, or if it looks a bit fuzzy? Maybe I'm using the wrong scaling method? (I think I actually did scale this incorrectly somehow.)
Näzgrupbargmargbårgryyrv hazmüz zurzamburzrüth
slayer_penultimate_both.png

I think the next update will finish it. :Awesome:

Are there any obvious problems with it? (I didn't do anything really to the body. So it won't stand up to heavy inspection- or any inspection at all really :whistle: )
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Re: Unfinished portraits

Postby The_Gnat » May 6th, 2017, 9:05 pm

It looks great I like the shading and the new face, but it is hard to analyse it in detail because it is blurry I think something was changed with the scaling.
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