Reepurr's stuff: Rainforest shelter

[Kanapka]

I've noticed some mistakes that were also in the mainline version:
- the crossbow looks like the metal bow at the front detaches from the bulk - you can see the guy's chest where the bulk should be
- the metal bow changes its angle to more vertical, but the bulk doesn't move
- it's a crossbow, not a Kalashnikow, you don't shoot from the hip, but you want to move the weapon up to align it with your sight line and take aim
- I think the leg movement was nice, no need to get rid of it

On the other hand, the kickback from the shoot looks good and cape and ribbon seems better to me.

[Reepurr]

To clearer convey the feeling of him shooting SE, you could also have him get a kick upwards a pixel or so.

ohhh that's how you do it...Right.

The ribbon might mean trouble. Not because you have animated it wrong or anything, I think it looks correct as it is, but because I reckon in this case you should animate it based on a bob animation. Why? Well, unless there's pretty strong wind in the bob animation it will look out of sync. But then if there isn't any wind the ribbon would be hanging down out of view behind the head... If you can't see it in the units normal state it might look strange if it only pops out during attack animation, or it might not -unsure. And then, if the bob animation has wind, the cape would be affected.

Thanks for the warning there. Once a standing animation exists, I'll correct it.

The scale of the cape movement is good, that is, it moves around a good amount of pixels. But you should check how it actually moves. At first glance it looks OK, but when I look closer I see that it moves in the opposite direction to the recoil. To be anal the cape would move like a fast low wave, flowing out from the top of his back.

It's...wind resistance from his movement backwards. I think of capes as mini-parachutes, so when you move forwards, the air catches the cape and sends it the other way.
Am I making sense here?

Otherwise looking good.

Nice to hear.

I've noticed some mistakes that were also in the mainline version:
- the crossbow looks like the metal bow at the front detaches from the bulk - you can see the guy's chest where the bulk should be
- the metal bow changes its angle to more vertical, but the bulk doesn't move
- it's a crossbow, not a Kalashnikow, you don't shoot from the hip, but you want to move the weapon up to align it with your sight line and take aim
- I think the leg movement was nice, no need to get rid of it

On the other hand, the kickback from the shoot looks good and cape and ribbon seems better to me.

Pt 1: Um...stuff is there, I can assure you. I'll look into it though, it's possible that I erased some of the crossbow pixels by accident.
Pt 2: The crossbow rotates! Honestly! ... Wait, is that TC ribbon on his chest part of the crossbow?
Pt 3: This guy shoots three shots in quick succession, he isn't going to have time! And anyway, it's in keeping with every other crossbow animation in the game.
Pt 4: I have it from thespaceinvader himself that it makes more sense for a crossbowman to ground his legs where he shoots, or at least, that's how I understood it. Besides, I prefer my crossbowmen not trying to do the splits when they fire.

EDIT: In response to sleepwalker...

slurbow-ranged-pushback.gif (5.63 KiB) Viewed 6583 times

[Kraus]

The crossbow is still jumping to the resting position too sharply, don't you think? It would warrant an extra frame, or something.

[Kanapka]

Wait, is that TC ribbon on his chest part of the crossbow?

That's exactly the point. Do a google search on crossbows and you will see that the brown thing between the TC ribbon and his shoulderpad is the bulk of the crossbow. I think that's what makes the detachment effect.

[Reepurr]

you will see that the brown thing between the TC ribbon and his shoulderpad is the bulk of the crossbow. I think that's what makes the detachment effect.

Surely you mean his torso armour.

slurbow.png (1.72 KiB) Viewed 6567 times

@ Kraus: It probably could, actually. I'll draw another orientation later.

[Kanapka]

Now I see that you were right. I just never saw a crossbow without a bulk. I'm sorry for the confusion.

[homunculus]

[...]@ homunculus: Yeah. That's the string.
Should a solid piece of metal really become straighter? How far can an inch-thick sheet of metal bend?
Good to see you support my shoot-from-the-hip decision...[...]

well, it sounds bit strange that i should be supporting...
huh, if someone asked my opinion, i don't think i would support orcs having such high-tech weapons as crossbows in the first place.
that being said, i think it is more productive to try to think along with those orcs using those crossbows (rather than just ranting about how they should be using shortbows or something).

there is such thing as pistol crossbow that is indeed not supported by shoulder while shooting.
never seen such thing in the context of medieval weaponry, and i have no idea if pistol crossbow is a real medieval weapon.

and there are those crossbows with the folded string, which looks like a smart invention.
but those crossbows are even more on the hi-tech side.

our friend youtube helps to illustrate the difference between some crossbow types and what happens to the bow part while shooting.
Development of Crossbow (that's a good exercise for the abdominal muscles on top of being illustrative)
my homemade crossbow test .WMV (the hi-tech folded string version)

without the bow becoming straighter, it looks like it is some kind of a toy crossbow with a rubber band.
i mean, the very thing that drives the crossbow bolt is the bow part becoming straighter.
i would give my peanut suggestion to rather exaggerate the straightening to make it look more like shooting, especially considering the exaggerated bend in the bow that is already visible in the sprite.

[Reepurr]

There's no real limit on the orcs' crossbow technology, since they nick all their crossbows off unfortunate Loyalists. More specifically, the Slurbow uses a super-crossbow called an arbalest.

*bothers to read the link*
Shoulda Googled earlier, that does need some springyness in the area of the metal doesn't it?

EDIT: This look any better?

slurbow-ranged-bendybow.gif (5.62 KiB) Viewed 6489 times

@Kanapka: It's fine, a fairly easy mistake to make when I'm not showing you the 'baseframe'.

[homunculus]

arbalest?
to me it looks very hard to interpret, like some fantasy crossbow with the stock part split and attached to the bow in two spots.
and the string seems to be attached not to the tips of the bow.
but i may be wrong at reading the sprite.

[...]It's...wind resistance from his movement backwards. I think of capes as mini-parachutes, so when you move forwards, the air catches the cape and sends it the other way.
Am I making sense here?

well, it might be a matter of wording, i think it would be more to the point to say that the wind resistance is trying to keep the cape in place (rather than move it around).
as the cape is also hanging from the shoulders, it would produce the wave animation mentioned earlier.
actually air also has some volume, so the air might not flow so quickly under the back part, so the cape might move forward with the back a little bit (in the beginning of the animation).
but in the lower part where the legs are it certainly feels that your cape is moving forward too soon.
and as the cape has some inertia, it might move a little bit to the left at the end of the animation, if you have got a frame for that.

as for the ribbon thing on the head sticking out mysteriously like that, there could be several reasons.
1) the ribbon is so dirty that it assumes the shape it had after last contact with moisture.
in that case the ribbon might just bend up and down a little but not change shape.
2) the ribbon is lightweight and there is a lot of static electricity that is holding the ribbon up like that.
in that case i would expect the ribbon to become slightly straighter during the forward movement, especially close to the head.
3) the orc is extremely enthusiastic and trigger-happy, and the ribbon is held up by the force of excitement (an artistic reason, and probably the correct interpretation here).
anything goes, but same animation as case 2 might be most expected unless it looks funny and overdone (if it does not look cool then the current one is ok and there is always winr).

[Reepurr]

So I'm back, and I'll be picking up the stuff I've been working on one by one. Since I've got a campaign and an era out there, both of which use custom sprites, I figured...

I need shading practice

progress.png (13.73 KiB) Viewed 6322 times

[artisticdude]

Crit-time.

1. Metal is a high-contrast material. Go darker in the grooves between plates and other places where there would be strong shadow. Metal is also a highly reflective material, so larger highlights will help to give that reflective look.

2. The boots of the fully-armored soldier (the one with the sword): remember that the boots aren't flat. They are made up of several volumes and shapes, all of which affect the light hitting the entire boot in a different way. The rim of the boot gets its own highlight since there is nothing to block the light hitting it. However, that protruding rim blocks the light to the part of the boot just under the rim, so we have to leave that part in shadow. Etc. Etc. Etc.

3. Remember that specular highlights are never at the edge of an object unless the light is coming from behind that object. Usually speculars tend to end up towards the middle, depending on the lightsource used.

4. Remember that you don't necessarily have to use every color in your palette on every piece of armor. Some pieces will have nothing to block the lightsource from hitting them, so you can usually dispense with the darkest shade(s) altogether. The pieces in shadow will have less light hitting them, so for those you can generally dispense with the lightest shade(s).

5. Beware banding. You actually don't have a whole lot here, but there are a few isolated cases (such as on the boots) to watch out for.

6. You've made the outlines facing the lightsource too light... you've used what appears to be the third-to-darkest shade in your palette to outline those areas, which makes the outline look washed-out. I'd suggest using the second-to-darkest shade to outline those areas, it will lighten up the outline enough without looking washed-out.

[Reepurr]

I wasn't intending to go away from the forums for a month again

Most of your critiques seemed to be directed at the soldier wearing too much armour, so I basically only edited him. I did a little on the standalone one at the bottom as well, but he didn't take to them so well.

progress.png (13.89 KiB) Viewed 6138 times

[artisticdude]

Mm, better, but the 'flat boot' problem remains. There are still some other issues, but right now I'm going to focus on the boot issue, as the principles I'll use here extend to the rest of the sprite as well.

Consider the attached (incomplete) edit of your previous version (I did this a while back and never finished or posted it).

Here I have drawn two (admittedly crude, but they'll do for the purpose of illustration) boots, respectively labeled 1. and 2. The red arrow indicates the light coming from the lighsource (which is, of course, the upper right). In figure 1., the light is coming from the upper right, and it wants to reach the upper part of the boot that covers the foot (the area where the arrow ends in figure 1.). However, as show in figure 2., the light cannot reach that area because it hits the rim of the boot and bounces off. Consequently, the 'upper part of the boot that covers the foot' area (the area circled in blue in figure 2.) is in shadow.

[Reepurr]

You have the magic power to make shading boots make sense

Spent a while looking at how Loyalists' armour works, as well as what you did with the Trooper in your attachment, and the result was this (a nasty frankenstein was generated in the process).

(EDIT: *reattaches Mounted Guard's hand*)

progress.png (19.63 KiB) Viewed 6052 times

[Trubbol]

Dang, these are amazing.