Temple is finished - Big Upload on page 4!

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artisticdude
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by artisticdude »

A question: don't you draw terrain at a larger scale (4x, IIRC), and then shrink it down?
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Midnight_Carnival
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Midnight_Carnival »

the Temple needs more blood, definatley.
no, I joke.
what I'm wondering about is the scale thingy. I mean we have single trees which are so large that they alter the terrain, yet a windmill doesn't. As eye-candy, I think your temple is great, but if you were to make it a different sort of terain... there are a number of problems.
That said, I definatley think several mainline campaings, as well as most umcs would benifit from interior tiles for castles, dungeons, sewers, etc...
I tried, I really did, but I was unable to produce anything I thought was worth showing, couldn't get the angles right or the height or get the images to match up.
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
Tet
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Tet »

Hi there,
I just give some status information.

I did not succed to make a better colum on my own.

I did get my 3 problems solved. I had to define a new transition type-ne-nw in the simple transition to place the missing water transition. I managed the incoming and outgoing transition by copying the need full PNGs only. The terrain code only gives a condition when there is a file. Once the condition is set no other condition will be accepted between these tiles. So delete the pngs not wanted and the wanted one get used. I managed a full set of transition between border and no-border-tiles (last coding problem solved)

I did different sets:
Big colums with frame including water transition
Big colums and statues alternating no frames
Transition between the two

For Experiments
Small colums with frames (No temple proportion, more like palace)
Big colums with round head (ugly, not good)

The colum head is a problem. If it is white, it looks like an egg. If it is black in the middle, it looks like a chimmney.

The general transition work extremly nice with many terrains:
Good are forrests (including hills), all flats (including cave) and all water

Bad are mountains, bare hills and cavewalls
In that (bad) case there should be a surounding of the temple with flat terrain or the transition have to be fixed.

I am happy with the floor terrain I am using (road and stone path). However other terrains are working well too. I liked temple on sand, dirt, grass and ice.

I did a nice floor myself, but it interfears with perspective, so I do not use it. It comes with cool six pointed stars and is matching nicely over tiles. It makes a nice royal hall or so. I post it for those who might like it.

@carnival:
No blood in the temple! I was just using the given altars. Did I post a altar with blood? They come randomly right now.

@dude:
I did scale the colum down a bit from some bigger picture. the white frame is cobble (human castle) with more contrast. Thanks for the tipp.
Attachments
Cool floor, but not good with temple.
Cool floor, but not good with temple.
temple-ground-7.png (10.38 KiB) Viewed 4665 times
This shows the issue why ineeded the -ne-nw transition.
This shows the issue why ineeded the -ne-nw transition.
last-challenge-solved.png (168.12 KiB) Viewed 4665 times
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895
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xbriannova
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by xbriannova »

The pillars needs some shadow on them, and the perspective might be a bit wrong. I'm no artist, I'm just comparing between your temple and Wesnoth art... Other than that, I like what you're trying to do, could make a nice addition.
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UMC Campaign Guardian Order.
Main Campaign Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26895
Art Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 28&start=0
jkwchui
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by jkwchui »

This may be of help in drawing the columns. You may even be able to the shrink down version directly - this is a 45 degree isometric, but may be close enough at small scales to fool the eye. (I'm not too sure which isometric projection Wesnoth uses - the hex confuses me.) Speaking of which, for your floor texture, I think you only need to rotate it by 45 degrees and make sure the edges are seamless. It should then be true to what Wesnoth looks.
fluted-column-small.png
fluted-column-small.png (6.66 KiB) Viewed 4643 times
OTOH, as a curiosity, is it possible to make a multihex-temple? Temples are mostly squarish, and It may be pretty cool to have "prefabricated temples" that has a semi-transparent roof to go on it. Or really, "prefabricated houses/castles" and all that kind of good stuff that the RPG crowd goes wild over ;)
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fluted-column.png
fluted-column.png (20.78 KiB) Viewed 4644 times
Tet
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Tet »

OTOH, as a curiosity, is it possible to make a multihex-temple? Temples are mostly squarish, and It may be pretty cool to have "prefabricated temples" that has a semi-transparent roof to go on it. Or really, "prefabricated houses/castles" and all that kind of good stuff that the RPG crowd goes wild over
The multihex thingy works with computer logic. The user tells the computer what kind of hex (single hex) the hex is and the computer fills in bigger pictures according to rules. It is used with mountains and mountain ranges. I see no use for the temple.

About a semi-transparent roof. I would say it could be made and placed on an appropriate layer in the needed size (like 2x3 hexs or so).
That feature could be run automatically with a logic similar to the one of the mountain placing. (first big roofs than small roofs).

This is however very far away from the generell idea of keeping Wesnoth a simple tactical strategy game.

I would say: make a roof and place it where you like it for experimental issues. You could even put it in a user made campaign. I just wanted squared temples, so that is what I did.

Thanks for the column. I knew I mispelled something in that word.
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895
Tet
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Tet »

So back to topic. I put the column and coffin inside as "altar". The column is not working for me right now. The coffin is to roundish. Could you use my "marble" texture? The column please with smaller (less hight) tops and bottoms and the top round please (not square). The pillar pease with less round zigg zaggs. maybe just 8 or 10 on the fulls circle or so. The coffin without "belly" if possible.

Please support my quest for the ideal column!
Attachments
column-coffin.png
please try this as texture
please try this as texture
temple-ground-1.png (3.06 KiB) Viewed 4559 times
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895
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dipseydoodle
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by dipseydoodle »

Good job.
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jkwchui
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by jkwchui »

Here's a column remade to your specifications: 8 flutes, rounded top, and both top and bottom blocks narrowed down.

I'm thinking about making a "coffin pack" as a separate task, and I'll keep your "marble coffin" request in mind. Now that both of these are placed in context of other Wesnoth assets, I am concerned that they are quite a bit away from the canonical perspective... but then, there's no consistency between units, terrain, and castles anyway, so it may not be much of a concern.
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fluted-column-8slits contrast.png
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SFault
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by SFault »

The perspective on the round top slab is clearly different than the perspective of the slab at the bottom. The bottom one also seems to have some z-axis depth in it.
segmentation fault
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by jkwchui »

SFault wrote:The bottom one also seems to have some z-axis depth in it.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'z-axis depth'. Maybe you can draw some lines over the column to illustrate what you mean?
SFault wrote:The perspective on the round top slab is clearly different than the perspective of the slab at the bottom.
About the perspective inconsistency of the top and bottom... this is a 3D render, so I'm reasonably sure that the perspectives are correct :? Some lines again would be helpful here.
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pauxlo
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by pauxlo »

jkwchui wrote:
SFault wrote:The perspective on the round top slab is clearly different than the perspective of the slab at the bottom.
About the perspective inconsistency of the top and bottom... this is a 3D render, so I'm reasonably sure that the perspectives are correct :? Some lines again would be helpful here.
The thing is, you are using some central perspective: nearer things are bigger, and parallel lines meet somewhere in infinite distance. (This is how usual eyes, cameras and so on work, so nothing special).
But Wesnoth uses a parallel perspective: same-sized parallel things have the same size in the image, and parallel lines stay parallel. (This is since all sprites have the same size, independent of their position on screen.)

For your 3D rendering, you would have to set the camera distance to infinity to get a parallel perspective.
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by jkwchui »

pauxlo wrote:The thing is, you are using some central perspective: nearer things are bigger, and parallel lines meet somewhere in infinite distance. (This is how usual eyes, cameras and so on work, so nothing special).
But Wesnoth uses a parallel perspective: same-sized parallel things have the same size in the image, and parallel lines stay parallel. (This is since all sprites have the same size, independent of their position on screen.)

For your 3D rendering, you would have to set the camera distance to infinity to get a parallel perspective.
Heya. I did the render with an orthographic camera, i.e., there is no foreshortening in the image, and all the parallel lines are indeed parallel to one another.

I verified the "perspectivelessness" to myself with some construction lines, and I am intrigued by the suggestion that the perspective at the top being different from that at the bottom. Sfault/Pauxlo, please supply some annotations to help demonstrate what you mean here?
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fluted-column-perspectivelines.png
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pauxlo
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by pauxlo »

OK, when you add these lines, it looks quite good.
Maybe the impression comes from the lighting ... and from these lines marked here, for which I thought they should be parallel.
lines are not quite parallel here ... but they look as if they should.
lines are not quite parallel here ... but they look as if they should.
fluted-column-8slits-contrast+linien.png (15.51 KiB) Viewed 4444 times
(And I finally learned how to draw straight lines with gimp :-) )

Sorry if I did give a wrong advice.
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SFault
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by SFault »

I copied the bottom lines(cyan) over the top lines and they really don't match, except on some parts(black). The reason must be the z-axis depth or escape point (dunno the english term for this, sorry). I think the problem here is that the 3D renderer makes the top bigger since it's closer to the camera, but this is not implemented in the majority of the wesnoth sprites. It migh also be that the camera angle differs from the usual wesnoth angle (which unfortunaltely varies alot with units, buildings and scenery).

It might be that is just my eyes. How about putting some on the game environment for demonstration. Usually sprites look better or worse on the right context.
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missmatch.png
missmatch.png (63.03 KiB) Viewed 4434 times
segmentation fault
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