Temple is finished - Big Upload on page 4!

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Tet
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Temple is finished - Big Upload on page 4!

Post by Tet » April 30th, 2010, 5:16 pm

I did a version of the human castle with straight walls. I thing some new castles should have straight walls. I could not do the terrain coding. It appears very difficult to me.I just replaced the 12 castle tiles with my 12 experimental tiles. If somebody could help, I would be thankful. But lets see the ingame picture first. (The Sourjounings of Grog, wave after wave)
Attachments
straight-castle.png
Last edited by Tet on July 29th, 2010, 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895

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Issyl
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Re: Straight castle walls

Post by Issyl » April 30th, 2010, 8:10 pm

I thought the castle walls were already straight? The only thing you seem to have done here is change the hex of a castle tile from flat on top to flat on the sides. This also is rather confusing visually, since the hex is still structured as flat on top in the game.

The original castle tiles were already straight in a diagonal 45 degree line, you just changed that to a vertical line. As far as visual preferences, I prefer the former.

Good effort though - but I would say the sides of your walls are too dark.

Tet
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Re: Straight castle walls

Post by Tet » May 1st, 2010, 7:22 am

That is absolutly right. I turned it around for 30 degrees. I am not really an artist. I agree the walls are very dark.

I like the originals too.

Nevertheless, in some cases it might be nice to have straight walls across some more hexes. You could do for example a castle with colums like in greek temples. It would resemple the Akropolis or the Olymp across severeal hexes far better than the existing castles.

It is an addition not a replacement. I just used a replacement, because I could not do the terrain coding.
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895

Tet
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Re: Straight castle walls

Post by Tet » May 19th, 2010, 3:57 pm

I made the proposed temple finally. The colums and the border is good enough for me. The floor is concerning me. the transition do not fall into place. I would really like some serious help on the floor tyle and its borders. For the keep I would consider a single big colum or an alter with no further outline (similar to dwarf castle).

Would it be possible for a map map programmer / artist to join me in my temple quest? I still not get the terrain coding part.

I would like a temple structured castle in the form of stonehange, too. I belief it is possible. That should look more round in my opinion.
Attachments
temple-3.png
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895

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dipseydoodle
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by dipseydoodle » May 19th, 2010, 7:19 pm

That looks great but it needs more contrast.
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Sapient
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Sapient » May 21st, 2010, 3:00 am

I think this is an excellent idea for a new castle variation, and with some improvements it could eventually be one of the official terrains. Maybe you should post this in Art Contributions where it will get more attention.
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em3
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by em3 » May 21st, 2010, 9:18 pm

Hm... the east and west corners of the temple aren't exactly right angles, more like they were cut off. This looks weird when compared to ideal right angles of northern and southern corners. :hmm: Do you plan to do anything about it, or is it intentional?
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Tet
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Tet » May 23rd, 2010, 12:12 am

The right and left corner was intentional, but I added it in my latest version.

I added a version with columes and statues alternating for an inner sanctum. The statues are not Wesnoth style so I am reluctant to display. I added altar variation for both sanctum and temple. The altar functions as keep.

I decided to use the stone roads as ground including transitions. I got some coding done. There are still 3 problems which I will post as picture.

Coding Problem 1:
First I am using transitions. In the front the outgoing transitions fills the needfull corners. On the back an ingoing transition would cut of the extra corners. I need coding help for that. When I had no transition I had incoming transitions all around. It looked great on the upper side. Now I have outgoing everywhere, which looks good on the lower half.

Coding Problem 2:
I added a water transition. there is one spot making problems. It is proberbly called concave. I copyed the watertransition from the regular castle and added the tiles, which look fine everywhere else.

Coding Problem3:
From temple to sanctum I am missing wall transition at very specific locations under neighboring condition. I would need some help here. The Idea is, that the temple forms an outer boundery and the sanctum gives additional flavor inside. It works very well in my humble opinion. However there are four distinct transitions needed.

Code: Select all

{TERRAIN_BASE_RANDOM     (Tc,Tk)                                                        flat/road}
{TERRAIN_BASE_RANDOM     (Tf,Ta)                                                        flat/stone-path}
#{TERRAIN_BASE            (Tc,Tf,Tk,Ta)                                                 castle/temple-statues/temple-ground}
{OVERLAY_RANDOM          Tk                                                        castle/temple-statues/temple-altar}
{OVERLAY_RANDOM          Ta                                                        castle/temple-frames/temple-altar}

{TRANSITION_BASE_L     (Tc,Tk)               (!,Tc,Tk,Rr)                      -299               flat/road}
{TRANSITION_BASE_L     (Tf,Ta)               (!,Tf,Tk,Rp)                      -309               flat/stone-path}

{TRANSITION_BASE_LF    (!,Tc,Tk,!,T*)            W*          -510 submerged_part     castle/temple-frames/temple-to-water}

#
#     >  T R A N S I T I O N S   B E T W E E N   T E R R A I N S  <
#

#temple castle

#{DISABLE_BASE_TRANSITIONS  (Tc,Tk)}
{WALL_TRANSITION      (Tc,Tk)            (!,Tc,Tk)                       castle/temple-statues/temple}
{WALL_TRANSITION      (Tf,Ta)            (!,Tf,Tk,Tc,Ta)                 castle/temple-frames/temple-frames}
#{WALL_TRANSITION      (!,Tc,Tk,!,T*)   (Tc,Tk)                            castle/temple-frames/temple-frames}

Attachments
temple-5.png
challenges.png
challenges.png (159.09 KiB) Viewed 7352 times
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895

seb
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by seb » May 23rd, 2010, 9:08 am

Looks great, though right now it seems like the columns are being viewed completely from the side. When viewed from the usual wesnoth perspective you'd expect the top and base to look trapezoidal (since they'd be square in real).
If you need some help figuring out the perspective, there's some useful info in this thread:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 2&start=75

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SFault
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by SFault » May 23rd, 2010, 9:16 am

They also seem quite flat. Make the shaded area a bit darker and wider to make them more roundish.
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Tet
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Tet » May 23rd, 2010, 10:24 am

I was considering that. But Colums are huge in reality. You do not see them from above. The base follows perspective. There are technical issues as well. If the colums get any higher they get cut off at some tiles. Larger units lookdirectly across the colum. So getting into unit perspective at the colum top might be usefull.

The Colums I am using have more contrast now. I just did not rework the framed ones as the shades on the white frame would darken disproportional. I then thought it might be nice having the outer colums slightly lighter than the inner colums. But that might be just an excuss. I am posting the latest colum I have. Please feel free to manipulate as you like. Putting them in 24 files makes a bit of work. So just focus on the colum.
Attachments
temple-convex-bl.png
temple-convex-bl.png (2.6 KiB) Viewed 7301 times
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895

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Eleazar
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Eleazar » May 23rd, 2010, 1:20 pm

Tet wrote:I was considering that. But Colums are huge in reality. You do not see them from above.
Seb's right. Castle towers are huge in reality. But in wesnoth you see them (and all other terrain) from above.

I don't see much use in mainline for a castle with walls switched around like that. But a greek-looking temple is a good idea if it was of sufficient quality.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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doofus-01
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by doofus-01 » May 23rd, 2010, 2:58 pm

I like the temple idea too, but the columns are too tall. Don't deviate too much from the mainline human castles. Use them as a guide and draw over them if necessary.
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Tet
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by Tet » May 23rd, 2010, 4:27 pm

Well I did draw over the castle. I turned it 30 degrees in my very first post. It was just nice to have. Thats how I found the place where to place the colums in the first hand.

The castle cutter definetley needs a tutorial. The fancy wall and base transitions too.

Who would need a temple as castle? Celestials, Vampires, Undead? I was thinking in terms of temple like the one which is used in campaigns so much. So it helps to make campaigns more dense. You can fight your way into the temple and search for the trapdoor to get in the cave to meet the vampire.

I do believe matching mainline castles is not really beneficial. But please give me a hight for the colum and I will give it a try. Please note I reduced the wide allready from my first attempts. And I did some shortening on the way. so how many pixel width and height (without perspective)? How is the stronger contrast? I was aiming at resembling marble.

Please respond to my coding issue, too.

Yes I am listening:
I do post a new colum: Wide -4 height -10 perspectiv top+3
Please help me on that colum design. Thanks for all the interest in this topic.
Attachments
temple-convex-bl - small4 short10 colum.png
temple-convex-bl - small4 short10 colum.png (1.85 KiB) Viewed 7250 times
My Temple Project: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29800
This is "must-play" campaign! Don´t read the thread, unless you need help. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31895

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pauxlo
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Re: Temple is finished/Straight castle walls

Post by pauxlo » May 24th, 2010, 11:43 am

About the perspective: Wesnoth has a parallel perspective view - everything is looked on from the same angle, no matter the height or "distance" (we look from infinite distance).

So, the top plate of the column should be parallel to the buttom one.

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