portraits of female trolls

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Edwylm
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by Edwylm » November 2nd, 2019, 12:13 am

BTIsaac wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 7:01 am
That doesn't really exclude the possibility of trolls being hermaphrodites, or even the possibility of them reproducing through budding. And i personally think interesting ideas shouldn't be thrown out the window for the sake of setting the dialogue in stone. Dialogue can be adjusted, especially when it has no real plot significance.

And let's face it, "you slaughter our women and children" is such an overused cliche line at this point. Plus coming from the trolls... it never really sat right with me. Not to mention the implication that if the player sides with the dwarves, they're basically assisting in genocide.
I was just giving another example.
a major aspect is that all the information is from races that record. dwarves would be bias against trolls. elves and men might have a better understanding with trolls compared to others. it wouldn't be far to say trolls are born from stone eggs or that female trolls are even considered trolls. Its possible it might be a earth spirit of some kind or something very beautiful and smart.

if you side with either you would find it being "genocide" you find that in many stories not just UtBS, you have tRoW, SotBE

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir » November 2nd, 2019, 5:08 pm

Hello BraverPleinair!
BraverPleinair wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 11:55 pm
took me a while to figure out some ideas first but here ya go. I'll get to accessories after and what not after this.
Waow! I love that; and really impressed. Great idea to connect with spiderman (and now with the picture of a gorilla, we know where the designer of the original whelp took inspiration from ! ;-)). The third one (second row on the right) is my prefered image because, as evoked before on the thread, she stands with the bust more straight and also watches with the head straight (is that correct english?). The latter aspect also better fits a future "heroin", I guess.

Here are some comments & ideas as they come. (I'm not demanding anything, you already did much. I just propose.)
  • Wooden sticks are well ok; maybe a mix of the second and third ones.
  • On this image, she looks like being on mountains.
  • If ever you can add a hanging throwing knife...
  • I had not noted that male/unsexed troll whelps have a king of skirt, seemingly in leather, just as I suggested...
  • As for the general picture and scenery: a general greyish tonality is ok, since they are somewhat rocky beings living in a rocky environment.
  • But there still should be colors, if only to fit the general style of Wesnoth unit portraits. A spontaneous idea of mine is to imagine that a sunset faces her: this would somewhat color her and all around.
  • Another source of scenery and color may be vegetation, albeit rocky vegetation. SOurces of inspiration: see wikipedia "Garrigue", especially the french article (click on "French" in the languages list on the left), with tons of examples down the page. Same about "Maquis shrubland" (the island version of garrigue), also both en and fr pages.
  • EDIT: Maybe look at the portraits of troll shaman and warrior for their face traits; although the whelp should look more childish, just as you did. Also note that both characters have red eyes; maybe the whelp's should be less so.
What do others think?

PS: Would you mind quoting me when posting new messages, even 1 sentence, else the forum engine doesn't warn me (even if I am the thread's original poster! and I could not find a setting to change that).

BraverPleinair
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair » November 2nd, 2019, 9:09 pm

denispir wrote:
November 2nd, 2019, 5:08 pm
Hello BraverPleinair!
BraverPleinair wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 11:55 pm
took me a while to figure out some ideas first but here ya go. I'll get to accessories after and what not after this.
Here are some comments & ideas as they come. (I'm not demanding anything, you already did much. I just propose.)
  • Wooden sticks are well ok; maybe a mix of the second and third ones.
  • On this image, she looks like being on mountains.
  • If ever you can add a hanging throwing knife...
  • I had not noted that male/unsexed troll whelps have a king of skirt, seemingly in leather, just as I suggested...
  • As for the general picture and scenery: a general greyish tonality is ok, since they are somewhat rocky beings living in a rocky environment.
  • But there still should be colors, if only to fit the general style of Wesnoth unit portraits. A spontaneous idea of mine is to imagine that a sunset faces her: this would somewhat color her and all around.
  • Another source of scenery and color may be vegetation, albeit rocky vegetation. SOurces of inspiration: see wikipedia "Garrigue", especially the french article (click on "French" in the languages list on the left), with tons of examples down the page. Same about "Maquis shrubland" (the island version of garrigue), also both en and fr pages.
  • EDIT: Maybe look at the portraits of troll shaman and warrior for their face traits; although the whelp should look more childish, just as you did. Also note that both characters have red eyes; maybe the whelp's should be less so.
What do others think?

PS: Would you mind quoting me when posting new messages, even 1 sentence, else the forum engine doesn't warn me (even if I am the thread's original poster! and I could not find a setting to change that).
hm, oh those just for the pose for the portrait of heroine's troll welp, not the end product lol, just getting composition ideas and giving you some ability to make some choices in the art direction. The accessories will be done don't worry, lol, the grey scale is just me rendering the light and shadows for coloring later on, and the faces will prolly be done along with the accessories, just doing these in stages.

denispir
Posts: 163
Joined: March 14th, 2013, 12:26 am

Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir » November 3rd, 2019, 10:12 am

BraverPleinair wrote:
November 2nd, 2019, 9:09 pm
hm, oh those just for the pose for the portrait of heroine's troll welp, not the end product lol, just getting composition ideas and giving you some ability to make some choices in the art direction. The accessories will be done don't worry, lol, the grey scale is just me rendering the light and shadows for coloring later on, and the faces will prolly be done along with the accessories, just doing these in stages.
All right.

To everyone: I would like, for both the troll whelp and shaman, to propose these portraits to the mainline image database, once finished (and possibly further elaborated to fit a hypothetical mainline style [*]). My reasons are:
  • Make them available to game authors (campaigns, eras, lone scenarios), encluding maybe for further version of existing games, including mainline why not.
  • Participate to have more female heroes, and characters in general, in Wesnoth stories. (Stop with the sexist default=male, even if I'm a male myself, or supposed to be ;-).)
Anyway, having them available does not bother people who don't use them ^_^ .

How does this happen? How do we propose new portraits? and evolutions of mainline game data in general? After all, other female portaits have appeared one day...

[*] I find many female portraits just ugly, both from an esthetic PoV and for the kind of character they evoke, while their male couterparts are not that bad. many also seem terribly depressive, again their male couterparts do not. Just watch female human mage portraits in the online unit database, or more easily on your computer in the base game data folder under data/core/images/portraits/humans . Why is it so?

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Pentarctagon
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by Pentarctagon » November 3rd, 2019, 4:30 pm

If there are changes you'd like added to mainline, you can submit a pull request on Wesnoth's github for them to be added (if you have the change implemented by yourself or others) or as an issue (if you don't).
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

BraverPleinair
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Joined: October 26th, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair » November 3rd, 2019, 9:28 pm

denispir wrote:
November 3rd, 2019, 10:12 am

To everyone: I would like, for both the troll whelp and shaman, to propose these portraits to the mainline image database, once finished (and possibly further elaborated to fit a hypothetical mainline style [*]). My reasons are:
Lol, my stuffs not that good to be that useful anyways, heres an update. been slow day for me
WesnothTrollConceptsTake3.png

denispir
Posts: 163
Joined: March 14th, 2013, 12:26 am

Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir » November 4th, 2019, 1:57 am

BraverPleinair wrote:
November 3rd, 2019, 9:28 pm
Lol, my stuffs not that good to be that useful anyways, heres an update. been slow day for me
I like your drawings very much. Would just remove the fur because it makes the knife less visible. I like the greeny grey. And the somewhat facety body.

BraverPleinair
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Joined: October 26th, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair » November 5th, 2019, 2:22 am

just an update to see if you really wanna remove the fur cloak.
Attachments
WesnothTrollConceptsTake3.png

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir » November 5th, 2019, 8:19 am

BraverPleinair wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 2:22 am
Just an update to see if you really wanna remove the fur cloak.
Yes, I do. We see better the "trollic bust" (I like the say you do it), and the knife is better visible. But it's not only me... I won't fight for that.

I understand that you are exploring around, but just for the record, I also prefere a mountain backgoround, with some rocky ground plants for decor and color.

BraverPleinair
Posts: 9
Joined: October 26th, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair » November 5th, 2019, 8:39 am

denispir wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 8:19 am


Yes, I do. We see better the "trollic bust" (I like the say you do it), and the knife is better visible. But it's not only me... I won't fight for that.

I understand that you are exploring around, but just for the record, I also prefere a mountain backgoround, with some rocky ground plants for decor and color.
didn't you want a garrigue background? thats what I was rendering and I rather not have to erase it and do another kind of environment when its close to completion.

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir » November 5th, 2019, 10:35 am

BraverPleinair wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 8:39 am
didn't you want a garrigue background? thats what I was rendering and I rather not have to erase it and do another kind of environment when its close to completion.
You are right, sorry, I just expressed myself wrongly. Garrigue is in fact mountain vegetation, that's why it's vegetation growing on rocky ground. [More precisely, it is vegetation of semi-arid, "hot temperate", rocky mountainous areas as are most of the morthern mediterranean coasts and islands.]

In your picture with 4 drawings (end of page 1 of this thread) I told you I like very much the one (second row right) where the troll is viewed with a rocky mountain background, and in fact seems to stand on a high spot there. It is a perfect illustration of what I'd like. Just add a little vegetation around and the accessory/attire things we have talked about. But again, it's not only me ;-).

BraverPleinair
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Joined: October 26th, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair » November 5th, 2019, 12:53 pm

denispir wrote:
November 5th, 2019, 10:35 am

You are right, sorry, I just expressed myself wrongly. Garrigue is in fact mountain vegetation, that's why it's vegetation growing on rocky ground. [More precisely, it is vegetation of semi-arid, "hot temperate", rocky mountainous areas as are most of the morthern mediterranean coasts and islands.]

In your picture with 4 drawings (end of page 1 of this thread) I told you I like very much the one (second row right) where the troll is viewed with a rocky mountain background, and in fact seems to stand on a high spot there. It is a perfect illustration of what I'd like. Just add a little vegetation around and the accessory/attire things we have talked about. But again, it's not only me ;-).
oh I thought you were expressing that you didn't want her to be on the mountains, welp I guess its too late, I'll just make the mountain more prominent then lol opps.

edit: well here it is, completed
WesnothTrollConceptsTake3furless.png
WesnothTrollConceptsTake3.png

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