In regards to flying units:

[JW]

we could create a special ability, Flying, that made a unit immune to melee attacks when defending.

The idea of gryphons and bats and other bird types being vulnerable to melee damage on defense seems perplexing to some Wesnoth players. It makes sense that ranged attacks would be effective against them, but how would they be hit by say, a sword? Wouldn't they just fly away and avoid any damage?

I would like to see the following come about in this thread:
What ideas are there to change how flyers work to better match our intuitive understanding of how flyers would re/act?
Achieve a satisfactory explanation as to why flyers work the way they currently do

Note that changing how flyers work does not necessarily mean changing abilities of flyers or adding new abilities. It may simply mean a change in defense or resistancies, possibly both, a change in attacks, etc.

I want any and all ideas. Thank you for them.

[Becephalus]

I always thought drakes might be easily tired and so can only fly for short peroids of time (at least thats what I tell myself). DOesn't work as well for bats though (maybe bats are just stupid).

[Cuyo Quiz]

If we follow Darth Fool's view, which says that fliers have to rest and land after moving, or follow mine that says they aren't doing high flying during an skirmish for fighting reasons, we could get away with giving them skirmish when they move, and being susceptible to ZoC in any other situation.

Then a flying Gryphon, Bat, anything could sweep through enemies by flying fast or high when moving, but then be ZoC'ed. Problem comes when they are already ZoC'ed, should we let them fly through openings to escape or not?, i say no, for gameplay mainly (if you ZoC'ed it, do reap your rewards), and for realism in that the unit wouldn't be able to get the initial lift to fly. But with this take, how hard would it be to code?.

[Eleazar]

if we get some flying animations going it could actually look like the units fly for a burst, then land. I don't think constantly flapping units are a good idea no matter what the concept of what they are doing is.

[JW]

I wonder if it is possible for a unit to have different defenses based on attack range? If so I see a simple solution of having a higher defense for flyers against melee than ranged.

To throw out some numbers: 40% defense against ranged, 70% defense v. melee while on defense. When attacking I imagine 50% would be suitable for both melee and ranged, although no flyers I know of use ranged attacks.

[deserter]

Don't the Drake Gliders have a ranged attack? Well it's not very ranged anyway...

Flying ability could be a Steadfast mod. When defending in melee, flyer would have x% of resistance. Or we could have a Hardness mod. Flyers could have hardness against all melee attacks, when defending.

[Elvish_Pillager]

How's this: Creatures with "Flying" ability always have 70% defense against melee when they are the defender.

KISS.

[zookeeper]

Flyers definitely shouldn't have extra resistance against melee when defending. They are hard to hit, not hard to damage if the hit lands. Perhaps they could have a fixed defense value on melee defense, like 70%? However, it wouldn't be immediately clear which takes precedence, attacker's magical/marksman or the flying defender's fixed defense.

Personally, I'd just like flyers to be immune to ZoC and melee of non-flyers.

EDIT:

How's this: Creatures with "Flying" ability always have 70% defense against melee when they are the defender.

Well, that was somewhat simultaneous...

[Elvish_Pillager]

However, it wouldn't be immediately clear which takes precedence, attacker's magical/marksman or the flying defender's fixed defense.

Yes it would - magic ignores defense. And this is a defense-setting ability.

[JW]

It sounds - so far - that a fixed 70% defense against melee attacks when passive is winning as an idea. But is it possible to code?

[deserter]

How's this: Creatures with "Flying" ability always have 70% defense against melee when they are the defender.

KISS.

This sounds good to me, but I was under impression that the terrain was the only thing that should modify the defense %? I fail to see why though. I see that the abilities modify just about every other rule in the game...

[zookeeper]

It sounds - so far - that a fixed 70% defense against melee attacks when passive is winning as an idea. But is it possible to code?

I don't see why not. However, it should only apply to melee attacks of non-flyers, yes?

Yes it would - magic ignores defense. And this is a defense-setting ability.

Says who or what? AFAIK, magical gives you a fixed % chance of hitting the enemy. That's what it says in-game, after all. The flying ability would give you a fixed defense %, which is pretty much the same thing.

[deserter]

Are there any magical melee weapons?

(There could be if there isn't anyway. Forgive me for a stupid question.)

[JW]

It sounds - so far - that a fixed 70% defense against melee attacks when passive is winning as an idea. But is it possible to code?

I don't see why not. However, it should only apply to melee attacks of non-flyers, yes?

Hmm...would flyers hit normally against other flyers or also at 70% miss?

Yes it would - magic ignores defense. And this is a defense-setting ability.

Says who or what? AFAIK, magical gives you a fixed % chance of hitting the enemy. That's what it says in-game, after all. The flying ability would give you a fixed defense %, which is pretty much the same thing.

You said it yourself. Besides, magic should always take precedent over the mundane.

-edit-

Are there any magical melee weapons?

(There could be if there isn't anyway. Forgive me for a stupid question.)

Yes. Elvish Shyde in default. Also, Rogue Mage has a magical sword for the Outlaw faction I believe.

[zookeeper]

Hmm...would flyers hit normally against other flyers or also at 70% miss?

Normally. The whole 70% defense on melee is justified with how difficult it would be for a ground unit to hit a flyer, so that ability should not apply when another flyer attacks.

Says who or what? AFAIK, magical gives you a fixed % chance of hitting the enemy. That's what it says in-game, after all. The flying ability would give you a fixed defense %, which is pretty much the same thing.

You said it yourself. Besides, magic should always take precedent over the mundane.

I agree that magical would take precedence. All I said that it would not be immediately clear.