Changing energy damage types

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Xan
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Post by Xan » February 9th, 2006, 3:44 pm

toms wrote:Better we update the WML for posiblities to have millions of custom damage types. :twisted:
It already can.
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Post by Nerdanel » February 9th, 2006, 3:57 pm

I have to admit I like holy as it is, but how about Purity and Corruption?

The problem with Light/Lawful and Dark/Shadow/Chaotic is that it clashes with the current alignment system. Non-undead chaotic creatures still have their holy resistance.

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Post by toms » February 9th, 2006, 4:14 pm

Xan wrote:
toms wrote:Better we update the WML for posiblities to have millions of custom damage types. :twisted:
It already can.
Huh? And it´s already changed? The Wesnoth fun is over so early? :cry:
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Post by Tomsik » February 9th, 2006, 7:57 pm

You can make own damagetypes, current damagetypes are(at least that's what changelog says) not changed (yet?).

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Post by Airk » February 9th, 2006, 9:55 pm

Rune wrote:I think that Light Energy and Dark/Shadow Energy is the best proposal so far. Alternatively we could use Lawful and Chaotic as energy types.
I don't think you should mix verbiage, if at all possible. Lawful and Chaotic are taken as alignment terms. They should not -also- be damage types.

I support "Light" and "Dark" damage too. (I don't think the word "energy" needs to be on there.)
Fire and Cold are okay as they are IMHO.
Aye, these are obviously comfortable.
Another option is to use the five classical elements (fire, earth, wind, water, aether) but I'm not sure if that many types are wanted.
Well, the immediate problem with this is...what the heck is "earth damage"? Crushing someone with a big rock? I think we already have several sorts of this sort of damage. And, well, "holy" doesn't really align well with any of them, and there definitely should be a "clerical smiting of undead" kind of energy.

I like Fire/Cold/Light/Dark for the 4 energy types, really.

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Post by Rune » February 9th, 2006, 11:12 pm

Airk wrote:
Another option is to use the five classical elements (fire, earth, wind, water, aether) but I'm not sure if that many types are wanted.
Well, the immediate problem with this is...what the heck is "earth damage"? Crushing someone with a big rock? I think we already have several sorts of this sort of damage. And, well, "holy" doesn't really align well with any of them, and there definitely should be a "clerical smiting of undead" kind of energy.
Earth damage would be damage done by certain spells (like entangle), but I agree that they are unnecessary. It was just an idea.

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Re: Changing energy damage types

Post by JW » February 9th, 2006, 11:28 pm

I still think this (names changes slightly):
JW wrote:Heat: fire and such
Cold: ice and such
Energy:: lightning types - deal with energy directly.
Void: unholy types - stop energy or erase it.

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Post by Cuyo Quiz » February 10th, 2006, 2:01 am

I could swear i posted something here some time ago!.

Err... let's see if i remember:

Mages now are plenty more valuable, since they can push easier through Undead at lvl1 (Energy res -40). Thus they become more artillery-like vs everything too, since common res is 0. Dark Adept resisting energy, gives quite the unit maneuvering as one is either trying to get old men cold/beaten or fanatical youngs maced/ZoC'd.

Red Mage is now less valuable of course. Orcs still do well vs Undead, Trolls stop Skeletons, although drain proves to be effective vs general units, pity the Grunts.

Drakes can be Mage-attacked now too, while Undead have easier options vs them (i can't think/remember the Cold res Skeletons should have as to make the Saurian mage come out and battle them, but they have shots at Adepts fairly well). Something should be done about that. Mythical/special big creatures as Drakes/Woses/Trolls should have some Energy res i think.

I lwould like to call the scheme Fire/Cold/Mythical. Also,as an option, either Eenrgy or Cold should be slighty/partially resisted by armour.

That is all i can remember, and i'll be damned, i think i'll have to change those files again to re-test as i didn't save them somewhere else :( .
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Post by JW » February 10th, 2006, 7:54 am

Cuyo Quiz wrote:Mages now are plenty more valuable, since they can push easier through Undead at lvl1 (Energy res -40).
I believe the idea was that mages still have Fire damage. White mages (and possibly Silver Mage?) would have Energy.

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Post by toms » February 10th, 2006, 9:06 am

JW wrote:
Cuyo Quiz wrote:Mages now are plenty more valuable, since they can push easier through Undead at lvl1 (Energy res -40).
I believe the idea was that mages still have Fire damage. White mages (and possibly Silver Mage?) would have Energy.
Why? Light beam and missile make absolute sense, IMO. :?
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Post by Elvish_Pillager » February 10th, 2006, 10:29 am

Cuyo Quiz wrote:I could swear i posted something here some time ago!.

Err... let's see if i remember:[/qutote]
:)

Basic mages, along with the whole White Mage line, have Energy. However, I never intented Undead weakness to be as high as 40%! I was thinking 20%, or maybe 30%...

Red Mages being less powerful is good, they're very devastating and surprisingly easy to level up. (note that their damage type is also better than mages' against Woses, Giant Scorpions, and non-Red mages.)

I hope you remembered to seriously reduce the Drake weakness to cold before testing straight Undead against them.
Cuyo Quiz wrote:Also,as an option, either Eenrgy or Cold should be slighty/partially resisted by armour.
How about - cold is resisted by size. Big creatures generate more heat and take more heat energy loss to cool off, so they'd take less damage from cold.

So,
Cold resisters: Ogres, Trolls, Woses, riding units, most monsters, Dwarves (slightly)
Weak to cold: Saurians, Goblins, Elves (slightly)

Drakes and water units are special cases. Cuyo - I'd like you to test out various cold resistances for the Drakes in battle with the Undead, to see what doesn't make the battle too unbalanced.
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Post by JW » February 10th, 2006, 11:18 am

I always thought -50% was too high. I'd go with -30%. This way it is still quite a weakness, but it's 20% less so. I think that will be significant enough.

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Post by Cuyo Quiz » February 11th, 2006, 10:24 pm

Let's see if this works... Gliders seem to be the new Undead killer. Since everything else seems to get crushed by Ghosts with drain, or Archers. I thougth i was going yo get overwhelmed by cheaper units... refreshing change of tactics, i must say.

EDIT:My units and data modifications, cuz i'm not sure if the replay will function properly... i'm on Windows.
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Post by JW » February 22nd, 2006, 5:37 pm

This has only been downloaded one time. I'm assuming it was EP to dl it? If not, check it out man! If so, what were your thoguhts? I'm about to dl it, as I wanted to see what became of this proposal, but I don't have the time to check it out right now so I'll get it later so I don't forget it's on my comp.

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Post by Elvish_Pillager » February 22nd, 2006, 6:06 pm

I didn't download it because it was an FCMm. I now have.

Sorry, no go - they've changed all the unit image locations and thus all the units are invisible. Ugh.
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