Gryphon Rider != human

[Eleazar]

maybe somebody can post both griffins for those of us who didn't memorize the old one?

[scott]

Presenting the visual history of the gryphon rider. The earliest is on the top left.

[Eleazar]

Thanks Scott.

At best i'd say none of these are very good. I tend to think the viewer will be pretty forgiving of the perspective of a flying creature. If he doesn't think it's on the ground he'll assume it's at whatever height the perspective will work.

The problem with most of these, is they have a shadow like they are standing on the ground, or the last one is posed like he's crouching on something. Since they get basicly the same defense everywhere, we can assume they stay airborn (please let's not start a discussion about how long a griffin can fly. WGANR Wesnoth's Griffins Are Not Realistic. Therefore the creature should look like he's airborn.

[Jetrel]

I do realize that you've been trying to do this, and this is my point... if it was at a slightly above view the rear would be a little different as would the wings and the legs. For example the rear hip attachment point is covered by the wing, yet it looks to be far too high given the rider's position... giving them an awkward look.

The problem lies in that the rear should actually be visible above the right wing. This was a problem with the source image, and with fmuñoz's other animals. I've had to give all of his horses larger rears as well, because they fall off too quickly for an orthogonal/isometric perspective.

Another serious problem I see is the gryph's proportions. The head of the gryph and the rider look far too large, which makes the unit look impractical. The wings suffer the brunt of this as they look too small; a problem I think is compounded by the decision to give it a dynamic look through wing movement.

Drawing inside the hex is a technical limitation faced by all units for their base frame, and will remain so until someone overhauls our graphics engine*. The only way to make a large unit look big is to either reveal only a small portion of it (re: sea serpent), or to fold it up into a small space. The latter is achieved for both the Fire Dragon and Skeletal Dragon by making them hunch over in an unnatural way. Though I myself think this looks fine on the skeletal dragon, others have said the contrary, and I agree that it looks bad on the Fire Dragon.

But it's not like anyone can do any differently. The right solution is to draw them outspread at their natural size, and we can't do that. And drawing them in a contorted pose, but at their natural size looks much better than drawing them at a small size.

My problems with the old one were manyfold, but primarily I could summarize it by saying that it looked like a child's drawing - in that all of the limbs/appendages were visible, even though that's generally impossible for a creature of that girth unless viewed directly from above or below (this is true of a car and it's wheels), the head stuck up from the body at nearly a 90° angle, yet the skull was smaller than the core of the neck. The perspective was inconsistent in first-harmonic magnitudes - part would be shown as if you were looking at the creature from the side, part as if you were looking at the creature from above. One of the wings (the far one) was drawn backwards.

I want to repeat that, just so you realize what it means.
One of the wings was drawn backwards.


This is preposterous - to even suggest putting that image back in. Fmuñoz, at least, had the decency, like myself (see above), to correct artistic mistakes, for which he made 90% of the images that are in-game right now.



Anyways, I'm finished with this discussion - there is one person who is capable of contributing something meaningful to this - Neorice, should he choose to draw us a new gryphon. I quite hope he does; it would play well to his native strengths.

If he does, do know that the animations frames do not need to stay inside the hex.

*which probably means either Ayin, or me.

[Neoriceisgood]

Anyways, I'm finished with this discussion - there is one person who is capable of contributing something meaningful to this - Neorice, should he choose to draw us a new gryphon. I quite hope he does; it would play well to his native strengths.

If he does, do know that the animations frames do not need to stay inside the hex.

You make me feel like some misunderstood superhero;

Like. .. like



This guy!

[Jetrel]

You make me feel like some misunderstood superhero;

Like. .. like

This guy!

not like this guy?
(I did not photoshop this, that is a real epitaph. That was in my abstract algebra book.)

[Neoriceisgood]

Yeah, except sexier.

[Neoriceisgood]

Well whaddyaknow!

[Boucman]

the griphon probably should have it's wing extanding only when moving... so Neo, that's the way to go

[turin]

Looks good.

Since we now have support for movement animation, an animation of him flying would be awesome.

[Jetrel]

Indeed - that is "the way to go". Good show.

About the only thing I'd suggest is adding some more height to its rear - it looks flat right now, like that of a bulldog. I imagine something higher, like that of a horse or bear.

[Noy]

Indeed - that is "the way to go". Good show.

About the only thing I'd suggest is adding some more height to its rear - it looks flat right now, like that of a bulldog. I imagine something higher, like that of a horse or bear.

Agreed... also might it be possible to make the dwarf a little smaller? It might help make the gryphon look a bit bigger......

[turin]

But IIRC, the rear is supposed to be that of a lion. And lions don't really have backs like that of a horse or bear, from what I've seen.

I forgot to mention, IMHO that image looks like the level 2 gryphon rider (the gryphon master). So you should make the unit less impressive to get the level 1, not more impressive to make this the level 1 and that the level 2...

[scott]

You could also see if it looks good to move the head down and forward. You know... use every bit of available hex.

[Eleazar]

nice!

I'm not trying to play the "Realism" arguement, but i think smaller hindquarters make sense. With wings and fore-legs muscles it's front would be more developed than the back.

Did i hear somewhere that animations can extend beyond the hex?