Making the Drakes less weird

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Elvish_Pillager
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Making the Drakes less weird

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Take Undead, for instance. Their resistances are all very different, but the only changes to their movetype are a bit of extra cost on hills and mountains, and the ability to walk in deep water. That's three terrains. Their defenses are mostly the same as their smallfoot counterparts. The only exception is Deep Water, whose value doesn't mean anything to a Smallfoot anyway.

Drakes, though, fly. This distorts their movement costs on many, many terrains. A lot of people have complained that this takes away a good deal terrain based strategy; a different set of people have complained that this makes them really overpowered. I have a proposal to resolve both of these concerns.

I'll begin with the realism reason that these changes can take place: That Drakes can't fly as well as, for instance, Gryphons; that they are too heavy to lift themselves up into the sky; that their wings can only lift them off the ground somewhat.

Now, for the actual changes:

Code: Select all

		[movement_costs]
		deep_water=1
		shallow_water=1
		swamp_water=1
		grassland=1
		sand=1
		forest=2
		hills=1
		mountains=2
		village=1
		castle=1
		cave=1
		tundra=3
		canyon=100
		cavewall=100
		[/movement_costs]
You see, they're somewhat more like smallfoots, just like all other races. Well, not 'just like all other races'; They're as fast in hilly terrain and caves as Trolls, as fast in water as Mermen, and as fast in sand as Saurians. So, they still are good at moving, just not to the point where terrain becomes pointless.

Forests tangle their wings, mountains are too high for them to fly over, and Snow is cold, so it slows them down.
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Ankka
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Re: Making the Drakes less weird

Post by Ankka »

Elvish Pillager wrote:Forests tangle their wings, mountains are too high for them to fly over, and Snow is cold, so it slows them down.
Water is cold too...

scott
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Post by scott »

I don't know if this makes them more weird or less weird... but if you start off and assume as you do that drakes do not fly as well as gryphons (sky drakes excepted), then:

- their preferred movement is more of a wing-assisted bounding
- when only flying they are slower
- when wing-assist is hampered they are slower
- when they can fly and bound they are very fast

The only difference I propose because of this would be to slow them down over water since they can only fly. The forest, hills, swamp, snow, mountains, sand, grass, and desert are all good. Also, I think by the same reasoning they should be slower in caves - can't fly/bound. 2 all around for caves, water, and deep water.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

scott wrote:2 all around for caves, water, and deep water.
Sounds good. (I like your logic, too.)
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Post by Darth Fool »

these seem like reasonable changes for all the drakes, except the glider, which probably should keep its flying movement=1 most places.

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I haven't tested at all

Post by Shade »

I haven't tested at all, but I'm not opposed- heck, I'll test a bit... See if I get really itchy to make a proposal :)
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Re: I haven't tested at all

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Shade wrote:I haven't tested at all, but I'm not opposed- heck, I'll test a bit... See if I get really itchy to make a proposal :)
You have no idea how much I appreciate your services as a middleman who messes up my suggestions and proposes them! You're really doing fantastically!

By the way, I DO mean this seriously...
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Re: I haven't tested at all

Post by Shade »

Elvish Pillager wrote: You have no idea how much I appreciate your services as a middleman who messes up my suggestions and proposes them! You're really doing fantastically!

By the way, I DO mean this seriously...
I do try to keep the ball rolling. If I'm prone to thinking something has any grounding in reality I do try to move it along. As a general rule, you're not out to lunch, and do deserve to be taken seriously. You might not get exactly what you want, but then again I don't get my way on any number of things either so... I do try 'not to beat the original purpose' out of what you wanted...
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Post by MadMax »

I remember a TV show which described the anatomy a real dragon would have if remains were discovered, and it mentioned hydrogen-filled air bladders, which would allow it to fly with shorter wings. Perhaps drakes could fly like this too?

The only problem was that when the dragons in the TV show breathed fire, they used platinum which reacted with the hydrogen to produce the fire breath. In other words, they lose their flight when they breathe fire.
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Post by Quensul »

MadMax wrote:I remember a TV show which described the anatomy a real dragon would have if remains were discovered, and it mentioned hydrogen-filled air bladders, which would allow it to fly with shorter wings. Perhaps drakes could fly like this too?
If this were to become part of the Wesnoth mythos, some quite cool death animations could result. :-) Hindenburg, anyone?
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Post by turin »

The changes are good. :)

Perhaps they could move 2 on deep water, not 1? It seems like it would be harder to fly over, although I'm not sure exactly why I think that...
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Post by Quensul »

turin wrote:Perhaps they could move 2 on deep water, not 1? It seems like it would be harder to fly over, although I'm not sure exactly why I think that...
I agree with Scott's move 2 for caves, water, and deep water. However, if you wanted to differentiate between shallow and deep water, from a realism standpoint it would be more difficult to fly low over shallow water. As you approach shore, waves get much larger than in the open ocean, as they interact with the rising ocean bed. This could make for some interesting gameplay and a unique movement type, but it would probably just confuse people.
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Post by quartex »

Most land-based units are slower in deep water than shallow water. I'd make drakes be the same, just for similarity. I like EP's idea of slowing them down in deep water, caves, mountains and tundra forests. Very cool idea for making their movement not just a constant thing.

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Post by Quensul »

quartex wrote:Most land-based units are slower in deep water than shallow water. I'd make drakes be the same, just for similarity. I like EP's idea of slowing them down in deep water, caves, mountains and tundra forests. Very cool idea for making their movement not just a constant thing.
Hrm, I don't think homogeneity by itself is a good argument. Having deep water < shallow water would provide some uniqueness to the race, and could be fun tactically ("okay, I can cross this inlet quickly with my drakes, but I might get caught trying to get out of the shallow water - perhaps the bridge is a better route").

That said, I'm not religious about it; just an idea. :shrug:
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Post by ott »

If we want to hinder those big bulky Drakes, we'll need to decrease their cost or increase resistances too. Personally, I could be persuaded either way with drakes -- sure, they essentially ignore terrain, but that is a KISS rule which IMHO does add strategic interest.
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