Copyright Issue with PhantasyRPG.com

Polaris · Post by **Polaris** » December 21st, 2004, 8:30 am

Circon wrote:My friend saw this and suggests:

Toteone wrote:a) Complain to them
b) Flame them
c) Hack into their database
d) Sue them
e) All the above simultaneously

"SUE DER ASSES, MAN!"
So... what to do now? I really don't feel like ignoring this. They've obviously ripped off a lot of stuff that you'd have to creatively interpret the GPL to consider "legal".

/me walks away angrily

I completely agree, mostly because it costs nothing to say "hey, thanks to the Wesnoth guys for graphics!"...

Also, just tried it... And Wesnoth's graphics are really bad used... Phantasy RPG is graphically horrible!

The best revenge could be using OUR OWN graphic to design a really good RPG and drive them back to lamer land

Post by **Viliam** » December 21st, 2004, 10:41 am

phantasyrpg web site wrote:Graphics are Ã‚Â© their respective owners, or are licensed under the GNU GPL

What does this "copyright or GPL" mean? Is the some other page specifying which pictures are GPL'd and which are not? (Maybe there is, I did not browse their site.)

If there are no details about which pictures are GPL and which are not, it could be a violation of (a spirit of) GPL.

This is the way to abuse GPL: Take many GPL'd pictures, and make a few your own. Use them together. Write "Most of these pictures are GPL'd, but some are not; and I will not tell you exactly which." Now this does prevent other people from re-using the pictures -- because if one accidentally reuses a non-free image, they can be sued.

So it will be safer for anyone not to touch your pictures.

Invisible Philosopher · December 21st, 2004, 9:35 pm

There are several quite distinct questions.

1) Does it violate the letter of the GPL? Apparently it does not. If the graphics are placed under the GPL, then they are indeed under the GPL. Being intended for incorporation into Wesnoth does not change their legal status.

2) Does it violate the spirit of the GPL? I do not believe so: the GPL is designed to allow people to use useful works they encounter in any way that they desire. It is for the good of the many who use it, with the few creators being deemed to be unlikely to suffer significantly. It preserves the right to use the data you have come into the possession of without restriction to anyone except people who wish to be themselves restrictive of others. It promotes the free use of all useful information everywhere.

3) Is it polite? Probably not, but people should stop discussing the GPL if it is not relevant. That leads to the last question...

4) Does it violate the wishes of the artists? Possibly so, but they should have thought about it before contributing graphics which are GPL'd. They should consider their motives for contributing. If they want better graphics for themself when playing, they need not distribute their art. If they want to contribute to the community, they should stop selfishly wanting to support only Wesnoth's community over the general community of computer-users.

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » December 21st, 2004, 9:38 pm

I would just ask them to include a reference to Wesnoth at the bottom of the page.

If they don't, we can add something to Wesnoth saying that PhantasyRPG uses our graphics

.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » December 21st, 2004, 9:42 pm

MadMax wrote:If they don't, we can add something to Wesnoth saying that PhantasyRPG uses our graphics .

Don't be angry... we can BRAG about how good people think our graphics are!

Invisible Philosopher wrote:2) Does it violate the spirit of the GPL? I do not believe so: the GPL is designed to allow people to use useful works they encounter in any way that they desire.

In that case, I'd say it does. Not labelling which graphics are GPLed impedes their use by other people who encounter those useful works.

Darkmoon · Post by **Darkmoon** » December 22nd, 2004, 10:25 am

Elvish Pillager did you read my post from Dec 20,.... a pretty long one?((I think i should repost it, because people just go do the last few posts and do not read previous ones))

A link from Wesnoth site to http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

Just read it whole,.. and especially parts 5 and 10,... in itself.. there is definitevly something wrong with that either what phantasyrpg is doing... or how that license is worded.

Because, when you read it and apply it to situation with phantasyrpg... its either that phantasyrpg has not right doing what they do(not without doing some other tihngs first)... or this licencse has not value aat all...

GPL was not meant to be a simply a way of describing public domain programs/materials.. etc. But that is how they are treating wesnoth. People that provided pictures are still copyright holders, and by the letter of what that license says... they are not really working under it. They simply abuse it.

Darkmoon · Post by **Darkmoon** » December 22nd, 2004, 10:32 am

And frankly, I am disappointed that a number of people here (Dave included-no offense) appear to have kind of who cares and be happy attitude.

But then, I did not supply most of the art here,... nor had a chance to contribute in any meaningful way. So, I guessÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ I have not much right to speak up(and will simply shut up and enjoy the game

).

silene · Post by **silene** » December 22nd, 2004, 10:46 am

Darkmoon wrote:And frankly, I am disappointed that a number of people here (Dave included-no offense) appear to have kind of who cares and be happy attitude.

Dave sent mails to FSF lawyers to know their stance on PhantasyRPG's use of Wesnoth's art. Since you seem to know better than them, you should contact the FSF, I'm sure they wouldn't mind help from a competent lawyer. I'm serious; even if you can't contribute to Wesnoth in particular, you could contribute to Free Software in general! Just ranting on this forum won't get you anywhere.

Darkmoon · Post by **Darkmoon** » December 22nd, 2004, 1:26 pm

I am sorry silene(and everyone else),

Did not want to vent that much and promise to stay away from this topic(as I am bound to say more than appropriate on this particular subject). Its that this particular thing has been of rather big importance to me as of late.

I think, the more important things that I wanted to mention I did so already in an earlier lengthy post, and should have stopped at that.

I did send(not to FSF) two emails asking for opinions on specific issues regarding wording and understanding the letter of the license. Even if not helping Wesnoth directly, I hope to at least find much deeper understanding, and perhaps with time my contribution to the cause will amount to something.

Post by **Jetrel** » December 30th, 2005, 2:38 pm

Just for [censored] and grins, I went back and looked at this site. They got a new logo, but essentially nothing else has changed in terms of them using our graphics.

They have also removed their mention of the GPL, entirely.

But what kills me is their new desktops/wallpapers. They drew them themselves (and horribly - I feel ill just looking at them), but my god I've never seen such a blatant ripoff of other people's designs in my life! Every last one of them was based directly on a sprite or image posted somewhere on our forums.

http://phantasyrpg.com/images/wallpaper/1.jpg
based on our general

http://phantasyrpg.com/images/wallpaper/2.jpg
saurian tribalist/soothsayer and prince from "versus ai" multi icon

http://phantasyrpg.com/images/wallpaper/3.jpg
bad traceover of neo's orcish shaman.

http://phantasyrpg.com/images/wallpaper/4.jpg
ripoff of our "sound" preferences icon

http://phantasyrpg.com/images/wallpaper/5.jpg
ripoff of images posted by neversay: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Contrib:Neversay

Unbelievable.

It's not the legality or anything, it's just the principle of the thing. I mean - how sad that they can't even design their own basic idea for a picture, to say nothing of drawing it. Or moreover, that they choose not to.

Christ - I rag on myself for not doing the best of costume designs, but that's just pathetic.

I don't really care - in that, I'm not angry at them. I just pity them. Have they no shame?!?

Website · Post by **Sapient** » December 30th, 2005, 3:33 pm

Actually, I thought the tribalist and shaman wallpaper were good.

And I liked the last caption: "Fight for the experience!" What a double meaning, lol.

Post by **Darth Fool** » December 30th, 2005, 3:41 pm

Hmm... I don't think it is particularly sad to make a portrait sized picture inspired by an icon. It is not like they just took the icon, rescaled it and then added detail. The direct copy of neo's shaman, however, is quite sad.

Post by **Dave** » December 30th, 2005, 4:14 pm

At the current time they still seem to reference the GPL at the bottom of the page: "Graphics are Ã‚Â© their respective owners, or are licensed under the GNU GPL"

I'm not sure whether this is sufficient to satisfy the GPL, but it's what we agreed on with them last time.

David

Post by **Neoriceisgood** » December 30th, 2005, 5:17 pm

Man my god that Shaman is ugly.

Post by **Jetrel** » December 31st, 2005, 7:56 am

Dave wrote:At the current time they still seem to reference the GPL at the bottom of the page: "Graphics are Ã‚Â© their respective owners, or are licensed under the GNU GPL"

uhm, yeah. I kinda didn't realize that you can scroll the website down. I think that wasn't possible with their last design...

Kinda missed that elephant in the room, there...