GPL Policy

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GPL Policy

Postby opensourcejunkie » September 11th, 2008, 1:57 pm

Hey, I'm not sure which board to post this question on, so I'm placing it here because it seems like an issue that BfW artsy people might have run across. :-)

Basically, I've run across some non-mainline music by Doug Kaufman (a mainline music contributor) which I'd like to include in a campaign of mine. Unfortunately, he's unable to release the desired pieces under the GPL, but he is quite willing to release them on a permission basis.

Now, the add-ons server requires that all content be released under the GPL; I wanted to know if that is a strict rule, or simply a way to ensure BfW's good legal standing. If there is room for flexibility, could a piece be added on a permission basis?

Thanks for any insight into this matter.
--Opensourcejunkie


(*grins* at the fact that an open source junkie is trying to include closed source material in his campaign :-)
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby Jozrael » September 12th, 2008, 3:49 am

Not gonna lie I don't think any work of any sort that's not GPL has ever or will ever be included in Wesnoth. Just the general vibe I'm getting from everyone. I kind of agree with it too. That piece may be excellent, but there's a lot of excellent pieces that are GPL'd that are coming in too. Perhaps you could detail what vibe you're getting from it and submit a music request to the community: I'm sure if they create one and its mainlined it will not only fulfill your desire but fit a niche elsewhere in the game (and other UMCs!)

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Re: GPL Policy

Postby opensourcejunkie » September 12th, 2008, 4:15 am

Wow; I'm a total nerd; I don't know how I missed the "Music & Sound Development" forum when I was looking for a place to post this.

I kind of agree with it too

...Yeah, me too. The thing I like about BfW is how purely open it is. I suppose in the grander scheme of things, wesnoth will be better served by having open content music, even if it misses out on a few good pieces.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby AI » September 12th, 2008, 7:37 am

Moved.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby Aleksi » September 12th, 2008, 7:56 am

opensourcejunkie wrote:Basically, I've run across some non-mainline music by Doug Kaufman (a mainline music contributor) which I'd like to include in a campaign of mine. Unfortunately, he's unable to release the desired pieces under the GPL, but he is quite willing to release them on a permission basis.


I think it should work like that for the music. GPL is not really adequate for music... At least, that is what i understood after the research i've done.

The composers protect the music with whatever organization they want and then, give authorization to whoever wants to use it.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby opensourcejunkie » September 12th, 2008, 10:25 am

I love the big, blue MOVED thing. It almost makes me think of

PWND

Anyway, I think that there would be some benefit of GPL-ing a musical piece, because it would require the source files to remain available as well. That way, if someone wanted to, say, make a longer composition out of the BfW Main Menu music, it would be possible. GPL would keep the music improving as the rest of the game does.

Not to play Devil's advocate, though. :-)
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby Aleksi » September 12th, 2008, 1:11 pm

opensourcejunkie wrote:Anyway, I think that there would be some benefit of GPL-ing a musical piece, because it would require the source files to remain available as well. That way, if someone wanted to, say, make a longer composition out of the BfW Main Menu music, it would be possible. GPL would keep the music improving as the rest of the game does.


We've already discussed that issue. It is very complicated to find a solution. What would be the source file? Score? Cubase file? Etc...
Its way too complicated. Plus, i think it can speak for most composers, we are all very protective of our compositions... And the idea of someone messing around with it, hum... not sure....

I know GPL is about sharing source files, but i think music can be an exception...
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby Jozrael » September 12th, 2008, 1:35 pm

Coders were also very protective of their works, and I've created content for other games in other ways, and I know what it's like to be :? about someone messing with your content: but that's the nature of open source/free. Wesnoth is free, and even if the music is -slightly less- in quality because of this (I mean, come on, look at the music we've already got: it's fantastic AND GPL'd!) I think its worth it to preserve its spotless identity.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby TimothyP » September 12th, 2008, 3:53 pm

My music content is not open to be reused or rehashed by anyone. If that's the case, pull my music out. I maintain all rights for my music and will not allow anyone to mess with or mod it. I understand that the code in Wesnoth is open "source" (as in source code), but my musical notes and recording are my property.

Please clarify this for me. If my music is considered free for all to mess with, I'm done with this project. If I keep all rights, then keep it in the game.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby Aleksi » September 12th, 2008, 4:09 pm

The reason i insist on composers protecting they're own music is because the organizations we are registered too protect us in the best possible way:

Per example, if (it won't happen, but...) some other game, TV show, or anything... uses my music without my authorization, i call the Sacem (French organization that protects all the artists throughout the world) and they deal all the matters with they're administration and lawyers. GPL licence will never protect my music as well as Sacem will. Its about protection before all!
I can then choose if i want to distribute it royalty free of whatever. Get my point?
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby West » September 12th, 2008, 4:27 pm

You don't need any organization to protect your music. All you need is Copyright, which automatically applies to anything you create. Of course, you'd have to take care of all the legal business yourself if some infringment issue should arise.

There is a Swedish equivalent of Sacem called STIM, but I won't have anything to do with them as they are basically on the MAFIAA people's leash. Just like record companies, organizations like that are often more interested in limiting choice and preserving outdated business models than protecting creators. I wouldn't trust them for a second with looking after my interests as an artist.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby TimothyP » September 12th, 2008, 4:43 pm

So is our music safe here? Or is it open for people to mess with?

Please help me decide whether or not I should stay around or pull out. I need feedback from other composers here who understand the licensing better than I do.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby opensourcejunkie » September 12th, 2008, 4:46 pm

My music content is not open to be reused or rehashed by anyone. If that's the case, pull my music out. I maintain all rights for my music and will not allow anyone to mess with or mod it. I understand that the code in Wesnoth is open "source" (as in source code), but my musical notes and recording are my property.

Please clarify this for me. If my music is considered free for all to mess with, I'm done with this project. If I keep all rights, then keep it in the game.


Ouch; sounds like we might lose one more composer... From what I can tell (and I'm NOT an authority on this), any content that is submitted to wesnoth's add-ons server must be GPLed; it says so right on the upload. I know for certain that the art of Wesnoth is (happily) under GPL, so I imagine that music would be no exception. If the music is placed on the forums, it remains under your control, but if it were ever added to the game in any practical means (either add-ons or mainline), according to what seems to be current policy, it must be GPLed.

For what it's worth, I'm not a musician, so I cannot relate specifically to this issue. But I am a writer - both for myself, and for open-content venues (sp. Wikipedia/Wikiversity) I know something of what it's like to have someone take what you've made, turn it around, and generate something based off of your original work. At times it can be a thrill, knowing that someone else is further advancing a project that you started. At other times, especially when your work is masticated, it can be bitter and sobering.

It takes a certain kind of person to place an open license on their works - not a better person, as the righteous Richard Stallman might imply, but a person with certain priorities. If your (current) priority in content-development is the advancement of a certain cause - say Battle for Wesnoth - then your willingness to release code or content into the community will reflect that priority. If on the other hand, you're trying to accomplish a more personal goal, such as develop a portfolio of art or music (or code :-), then there is a very good, compelling reason not to release your content into the open community - it needs to remain your content.

So I think that the issue that needs to be resolved for all of us contributors is why are we here, donating our time and effort to this cause of Wesnoth? If we hope to advance this game (and thus in my estimation, the open source initiative), then GPL shouldn't be an issue. If our goals are more personal, however, then there are other closed venues that may be better suited to meet those goals.

imo, anyway.
--Opensourcejunkie
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby anakayub » September 12th, 2008, 4:59 pm

Seriously, licensing is a sensitive issue, and should not be touched lightly. And thinking that coders/artists/composers work the same way is in my opinion misguided, and might lead to misunderstanding. I'm not knowledgeable in this area and thus do not know what is the correct understanding, so...

Please leave a knowledgeable developer etc. only to discuss the question.
Last edited by anakayub on September 12th, 2008, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited moderator note.
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Re: GPL Policy

Postby Aleksi » September 12th, 2008, 5:15 pm

West wrote:There is a Swedish equivalent of Sacem called STIM, but I won't have anything to do with them as they are basically on the MAFIAA people's leash. Just like record companies, organizations like that are often more interested in limiting choice and preserving outdated business models than protecting creators. I wouldn't trust them for a second with looking after my interests as an artist.


I don't know how STIM works, but you are wrong about the Sacem. Every french composer (film score, video game, pop, rock, you name it) is registered to the Sacem in the professional field. Plus, Sacem takes care of every artist that comes from a foreign country that gets produced in France, like Madonna, etc... So, why does everybody trust them?

West wrote:You don't need any organization to protect your music. All you need is Copyright, which automatically applies to anything you create.


Yes you do. Because you need to prove that you created it. Doing it officially, on a theoretical point of view, protects you from anything. If you compose a piece, and someone steals it and registers it under his name before you, how can you prove that you are the original creator?
Every composer is free to go his way, but knowing people that had they're music stolen, I would never want to face that... ever... That is why i think it is wise to register with an organization that protects you entirely.

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