Arendians

[Ranger M]

AFAIK a mace is cheaper, lighter and simpler to use than a sword. Eevn if it is just a properly shaped woodpiece with a ring of metal hammered/socketed at the top for clubbage.

Think brutal, think cheap, think Thug.

EDIT: Anyone can get a sword after a good career of pillaging the enemy and getting battle hardened anyway. Like the Spearman becoming an Swordsman.

In that case take the other two reasons instead.

Anyway, I just committed the new graphics for the swordsman line, here they are. I compared them to the loyalists again, mostly because if they end up looking too similar to anybody it will be the loyalists, I think that there is definitely enough difference.

[turin]

I don't think there is enough change in pose between the levels 2 and 3 of the mace-warrior line. Other than that, good...

[Ranger M]

I don't think there is enough change in pose between the levels 2 and 3 of the mace-warrior line. Other than that, good...

There is more of a change than for the pikeman line. However I do agree with you (I always prefer pose changes, in male - female differentiation too), the only reason that there isn't more of a difference is because I need something to replace those rubbish old graphics before the next release, I'm going over them again soon (they're too blurry as well).


Seeing as nobody has posted any objections to do with the concept of two units sharing an advancement, I'm going to add the slayer as an advancement of the swordsman. I would also like more comments on my other two suggestions, only Turin seemed to have an opinion on them, and even then only one of them.

[turin]

Hm... I've been thinking about this faction, and it seems to me like it would benefit from more of an emphasis on mounted units. It is supposed to be a faction of nomadic horsemen, right? So why aren't more of them mounted? So, yes, a mounted mage unit is a good idea, as long as we can balance it.

Also, regarding the color scheme of the Arendians... I think they would benefit a lot from having blonde hair, so that they don't look so much like Loyalists, if you don't think that's a bad idea.

[Ranger M]

Blond hair isn't a problem, I've just been using brown at the moment because it's what I used on the first unit.

as for more cavalry, I have a new unit or two planned (think guy with javelins that he can throw and an one that has charge, both of which would advance from the horseman (still looking for better names here BTW). I just need some more time to work on these guys (been busy lately, thank god that summer holidays are coming up so that I have time to get on with my backlog of work)

[turin]

Some more suggestions artwise:

* Darken the armor so that it is more like the color on the Heavy Infantryman
* Use less saturated cloth - in particular, instead of brown clothing, use dun-colored clothing.

Also, I think the mace-wielding branch of the fighter, as well as the level 1 figher himself, might need to be redone... I just don't think that heavy-infantryman-like units go well with the rest of this faction. Heavy armor is characteristic of a settled, highly organized society, like the Lavinians or Wesnothians.

I may decide to edit one of the sprites to show what I would do with it - not that mine will be better than what you can do, but it will be able to show how you can differentiate the faction from others...


If you're wondering why I'm making these proposals - I think of factions in terms of their "colors" - Lavinians are red and metallic gold, Sidhe are green and soft gold, Marauders are brown and metallic grey. I think the colors of the Arendians should be dull - dark metallic grey, grey-green, and grey-brown. (For other factions - Rebels are green and light grey, Orcs are red and brown, High Elves are white and blue...)
Not every unit has to fit exactly with these "colors", but I think if you look at the units of the faction as a whole, you should see these colors.

[Ranger M]

I'll try to get a colour scheme working more, although I like the archer's green, so if need be I'll edit that, but only once I can compare it to the other units.

As for removing the mace wielders, they are the only seriously armoured units (although some of the horseman line willbe getting a little armour their L3's will get about as much as the L1 swordsman, maybe a half way point between 1 and 2, but not as much as the L2, and nowhere near the L3) They do fufill a specific role. They are used when fighting the Lavinians as a powerful unit that can actually do almost full damage because armoured units resist impact less than non-armoured units, and they have resistances to blade, which is what the lainians use most. I'm not entirely against their removal, but I would prefer to change them a little (less armour, or leather armour, doing this for the whole line would be relatively easy)

[turin]

I'm not saying they should be removed, but I do think the graphics need to be changed - the whole full-body-plate-armor thing just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe lose heavy armor and helmet, but keep the shield? Or vice versa?

[Ranger M]

I think that I'll make the shield have a wooden centre (with metal rim), remove the legging armour, and shorten the gloves on the battlear, and on top of that remove the helmet from the whole line.

[Kel]

Did you fix the RIPLIB problem with the Swordsman -> Mace line? If not, you could try just giving the Mace - upgrade a 6-4 dagger attack as a sort of sidearm.

Though now that I look at the actual stats 6-4 blade is a bit much for a secondary attack. Also, I don't think RIPLIB is strictly satisfied even in Default: take the Knight upgrades, for instance.

(slightly off-topic: 6-4 is really killer on level 1's, especially since strong ones during daytime get to 8-4. My Wild Elves got completely taken apart by Swordsman-spam the other day even after I'd dispatched the initial wave of cavalry. I realize that this is somewhat balanced by their low HP, but it's still a really strong infantry-based attack for a faction that's supposed to emphasize mounted units.)

[Ranger M]

Did you fix the RIPLIB problem with the Swordsman -> Mace line? If not, you could try just giving the Mace - upgrade a 6-4 dagger attack as a sort of sidearm.

I have, the swordsman can now advance to the hunter line as well, which uses a sword. I think that this is in the latest release of the imperial era.

(slightly off-topic: 6-4 is really killer on level 1's, especially since strong ones during daytime get to 8-4. My Wild Elves got completely taken apart by Swordsman-spam the other day even after I'd dispatched the initial wave of cavalry. I realize that this is somewhat balanced by their low HP, but it's still a really strong infantry-based attack for a faction that's supposed to emphasize mounted units.)

The Arendians aren't particularly balanced right now, with many of the units too strong (you just gave a good example) when they shouldn't be, and others too weak. For example all of the horsemen lines seemed weak to me when I last played, although I couldn't work out why and don't have enough time to balance them (which I'm not very good at anyway), so I didn't do anything about it (Balancing the Arendians isn't too high a priority right now, mainly because the standard is being set by the Lavinians, Maurauders and sidhe, which aren't fully balanced yet either, so I haven't got a good standard to set them against, so anything I do I will have to re-do later, so time which I could have spent doing other things (animations, etc) for them is wasted. However if anybody notices problems whilst playing and has a proposed solution then I'd be interested to hear it.

[turin]

Another art idea: use reddish-gold armor, instead of bluish-silver. I sampled the armor from the Orcish Grunt and used it for the Arrow Wind... I think it looks better. It's your call, of course.

[Temuchin Khan]

Blond hair isn't a problem, I've just been using brown at the moment because it's what I used on the first unit.

as for more cavalry, I have a new unit or two planned (think guy with javelins that he can throw and an one that has charge, both of which would advance from the horseman (still looking for better names here BTW). I just need some more time to work on these guys (been busy lately, thank god that summer holidays are coming up so that I have time to get on with my backlog of work)

These are good ideas, but perhaps the javelin-thrower should be available as a level one unit and not just as an upgrade. And should these guys even have foot units? Many Eurasian nomadic tribes did not.

[Ranger M]

Another art idea: use reddish-gold armor, instead of bluish-silver. I sampled the armor from the Orcish Grunt and used it for the Arrow Wind... I think it looks better. It's your call, of course.

This would make them similar to the Lavinians, something that I was trying to avoid, however it does look good...

The problem is that I doubt that it will work for the fighter line, so I might restrict it to some of the L3 units, I'll make a decision on this later.

These are good ideas, but perhaps the javelin-thrower should be available as a level one unit and not just as an upgrade. And should these guys even have foot units? Many Eurasian nomadic tribes did not.

They need to have some foot units, otherwise they will never be able to fight anywhere near mountains or forests (something that would make the faction nigh unbalancable) however I do intend (once balancing becomes major) to make the most desirable units, as much as possible, to be the mounted ones.)

[Ranger M]

True. However, it seems to me that level 1 foot units should be in the minority in this faction. Currently, there are three foot units and only two mounted units. This is quite odd. How about using Turin's idea that the mage line should be mounted?

yes, that is in my plans (and it was my idea)