The Steppe Orcs

ozymandias · Post by **ozymandias** » January 16th, 2007, 10:16 am

Great! Downloading it right now...

JW · Post by JW » January 20th, 2007, 7:24 pm

These guys are pretty cool, Zhukov. The problem is that little skirmisher with Slow seems overpowered to me. He can just skirmish to the leader and slow it if he moves off his castle perch, trapping it, leaving him vulnerable to the assault of the other forces.

Nice faction, and I like the originality, but that one unit bugs me. I don't know if it's overpowered or not, as the unit is crap in battle, but I thought I'd give my first impression.

-edit-

ps, I'm looking forward to the animations!

ozymandias · Post by **ozymandias** » January 21st, 2007, 11:26 am

The problem is that little skirmisher with Slow seems overpowered to me. He can just skirmish to the leader and slow it if he moves off his castle perch, trapping it, leaving him vulnerable to the assault of the other forces.

I haven't tried a leader rush with them, but otherwise, playing against AI, they seemed powerful, but not overly so. Well, maybe they do need to be toned down, or priced higher. Thing is, they're indispensable as scouts, so if they loose skirmisher or movement, the faction will have real problems with getting villages (except on a winter map, maybe). And the slow+skirmisher combo is just too much fun to change.

So my suggestion would be to try some price changes:

Steppe Hunter: up to 17 from 15
Steppe Spearhead: down to 19 from 20
Icewind Herder: down to 20 from 21

Would force the player to use hunters a bit more carefully. Scouting would have to be balanced more against buying combat units. Anyway, just an offhand idea. I might play around with it later - altough it's Zhukovs, faction, of course. I just happen to like 'em a lot.

Post by **Noyga** » January 21st, 2007, 3:25 pm

From my experience, this faction works a very unconventionnal way. They don't look very obviously unbalanced, therefore you need to play them a lot before suggesting balance changes.
- The steppe golbins are powerful tools, but they also tend to die a lot... Some cost increase might make sense, but i'm not sure it is necessary.
- IMHO the Speaheads are worth their price : they have a very nice special, a overall useful damage type and some very nice advancement options (especially the Vanguard)
- The Herders are probably a little expensive but i'm not sure it is a real problem
- The Shieldbearers are probably a little cheap but i'm not sure it is a real problem either

Post by **Noyga** » January 31st, 2007, 4:31 pm

kilder (a Catalan translator) reported a problem of translatable strings :
In the Icewind Herder and Icewind Drover there are double quotes in the description, but these are also string delimiter, so if you try to translate it you'll have an incomplete translatable string (that ends after the first ").
I suggest to turn them into simple quotes (that's what mainline units use for quoting), and i'll apply this fix to my Era (the Extended Era).

Post by **Noyga** » February 8th, 2007, 5:07 pm

One more remark (from me and others):
This faction don't have any air or water unit, this might (or not) be a problem on maps where water is aboundant.
Should we give them some recruitable water or air unit ? Any idea ?

Anul · Post by **Anul** » February 9th, 2007, 8:34 am

Noyga wrote:One more remark (from me and others):
This faction don't have any air or water unit, this might (or not) be a problem on maps where water is aboundant.
Should we give them some recruitable water or air unit ? Any idea ?

An animal that you can find in steppe enviroment could be...
A volture.
This could be an idea...

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » February 9th, 2007, 1:30 pm

Anul wrote:
Noyga wrote:One more remark (from me and others):
This faction don't have any air or water unit, this might (or not) be a problem on maps where water is aboundant.
Should we give them some recruitable water or air unit ? Any idea ?
An animal that you can find in steppe enviroment could be...
A volture.
This could be an idea...

Interesting idea. It would fit the whole Orcish image, and it would be unique and different.

Unfortunately, vultures are scavengers and not birds of prey. Still, I suppose I could look past that if Zhukov likes the idea.

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 9th, 2007, 1:37 pm

River otters?

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » February 9th, 2007, 8:15 pm

Karo wrote:River otters?

Actually, there's another problem with both the suggestions that have been made so far. Both vultures and otters are creatures from warmer climates than those which the Steppe Orcs were originally meant to inhabit. We need colder climate creatures of some sort.

How about a Siberian Tiger? Or a Polar Bear? Or an Arctic Fox?

Can anyone think of something better?

Ryorin · Post by **Ryorin** » February 10th, 2007, 5:31 am

When I think of speedy all terrain scout I come up with one thing...

Walrus Riders

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 10th, 2007, 6:47 am

Temuchin Khan wrote:
Karo wrote:River otters?
Actually, there's another problem with both the suggestions that have been made so far. Both vultures and otters are creatures from warmer climates than those which the Steppe Orcs were originally meant to inhabit. We need colder climate creatures of some sort.

How about a Siberian Tiger? Or a Polar Bear? Or an Arctic Fox?

Can anyone think of something better?

I was under the impression that river otters lived in freshwater north of the arctic circle.

Look! Snow!

Also, this was supposed to be a amphibious/aerial unit. Do foxes, tigers, and bears (oh my!) fly?

Bears can swim, yeah, but I'd bet my money on an otter.

Also: Walrus riders would rock.

Anul · Post by **Anul** » February 10th, 2007, 8:39 am

In Imperial Era (unbalanced), there are the frost elves that have seals.
They can be used for our proposal...
And all is already done.

Post by **Noyga** » February 10th, 2007, 10:41 am

Steppe Seals ? It looks weird.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » February 10th, 2007, 4:10 pm

Anul wrote:In Imperial Era (unbalanced), there are the frost elves that have seals.
They can be used for our proposal...
And all is already done.

Yes, and over at the IE forums we've discussed including the Steppe Orcs in one of our eras. That's part of the reason why I suggested using something else for the Steppe Orcs.

Karo wrote:I was under the impression that river otters lived in freshwater north of the arctic circle.

Well, maybe you know more about river otters than I do.

Karo wrote:Also, this was supposed to be a amphibious/aerial unit. Do foxes, tigers, and bears (oh my!) fly? Very Happy Bears can swim, yeah, but I'd bet my money on an otter.

Bears and tigers can both swim. Not as well as the otter, but they can.

[joke]How about if we give them Killer Whales?[/joke]