New Faction Proposal: "Vermyn"

[Neoriceisgood]

I've actually had the swarm idea myself; though it involved a Hydra that'd grow extra heads that'd make him more him do 1 extra attack per head
(1 headed hydra 5-1, 2 headed 5-5; all the way upto 5-5)

But yeah, I figured the skill would also work for swarms.

[Darth Fool]

Well, here is how I would impliment a swarm ability:

1) have swarm(X) units get X*HP/MAXHP attacks. This would mean as the unit is damaged, members are put out of commision. They can attack again once healed.

2) You could have an AMLA effect which increases the number in the swarm and probably also increases the MAXHP .

3) AMLA effects applied before max-level should still be applied when the unit levels (although I haven't tested this), so one possibility is to have a level 0 unit that gets the swarm AMLA and a level-up, but the level up doesn't get to add to swarm. The point being to force the player to choose between the two.

All said, I kind of like the idea and may code it up in the near future.

[Neoriceisgood]

I sort of had the idea for swarm that; the number (?) is limited for a swarm like; "Rat Swarm can only excist out of five rats at most." "Great Rat Swarm can only excist out of six rats at most"; this way the useability of the swarm counters could be modified to be tougher than just an hp addition; as they can be set to a limit;

say..

Code: Select all

Pack Rat (1)

16 hp

4-2 attack

Pack Rat (2)

22hp

4-3

Pack Rat (3)

28hp

4-4

Figuring out how exactly it works with getting an extra counter is debatable; I myself would have it seperate from the actual experience bar so that an unit with swarm could level up (At least if it's possible for it to keep it's counters, otherwise it'd break ripbl.. that acronym)

[Beleth]

Gathering up and replying to feedback:

Some of the names don't work.

You're right. I got to a point where I had to put something down as a placeholder even if I wasn't thrilled with it. Names are definitely open for updating.

Maybe you should have more level 0 units that are proportionally weaker and cheaper. This would help solve the upkeep problem.

This would definitely help solve the upkeep problem. However, I see it possibly introducing a few other problems:

1) The castle problem, also mentioned by the same person who gave this point of feedback, gets worse. Making the units even weaker would aggravate the only being able to recruit # number of units per turn situation because you'd have more units you need to pump out.

2) The faction would lose ZoC power. Having a hoard of level 0's would give your opponent a great amount of flexibility, quite possibly (and I would think probably) too much.

3) The faction would require more hexsides to be effective. Going to a 2:1 ratio would be incredibly hard against a strong formation. 3:2 would be difficult enough, I think. I'm also thinking about some maps like Hexcake where you have to break through a relatively small gap to get to the other side.

I'm not saying that I'm fully against this idea - I'm saying that I have concerns.

"You have no idea how much I detest factions where one race makes up more than 5 units (except for humans). Any chance that could be fixed?" - turin

I think that Cuyo Quiz makes a good point about thinking of it in terms of only 5 recruitable lines. However, I'm not sure that addresses turin's concerns.

What's the issue with one race having 5+ recruitable units? I don't mean this as a challenge - I'd like to understand the reasoning.

Why are humans the exception to this? I don't think of humans are being any more versatile than Elves, Dwarves, Vermyn, etc.

Could there be some sort of actual swarm unit with a Swarm abiilty?

Quite possibly, though my goal isn't to create a new ability for the faction. I wouldn't be against it necessarily; I just see the "swarm faction" idea as being distinct from an actual swarm unit.

Overall the feedback seems to be non-negative, and if this holds up for the next few days or so I'll look into getting some art done.

[Thunderblade]

Beleth, I like your Vermyn!

That brainstorming work you've done gave wonderful results! It's, indeed, a very original faction, adding interesting concepts to Wesnoth...

Anyway, my comments:
1) the mentioned "castle problem" seems to be a real problem, with this faction... Sometimes we get things like this, when playing with cheap units on MP. But I see it as an interesting challenge to be overcome with strategy, and that ends up in consecutive "waves" or rats coming from your keep (the first entirely of scouts, the second of fighting ones, and so on)

2) speaking of graphics, would they be similar to LFR's Nezumi? I'm anxious to see (and play with) them!

As I have no special skills with grpahics or programming, I doub my help will be of any use... But, if you need anything, just contact me and I will be glad to be of assistance!

[Thunderblade]

P.S.: I really liked that "Swarm" ability. Maybe it could be used to make a unit for the Large Rat line - I mean, instead of just one huge rat, thousands of frenzyed flesh eating little pests! It would be nice to give them a very low attack (something about 2-10) and give them 1 less attack per swarm member killed...

[Beleth]

Thanks for the positive feedback, Thunderblade.

[Duffchong]

Here are a couple ideas for solving the problem of limited castle space for swarm type units:
-Swarm units could make limited movement the same turn that they are recruited.
-Swarm units can be recruited on any hex touching castle hexes.

[Doc Paterson]

I've always loved ratlings and ratling-oriented creatures, and I'd greatly enjoy a faction centered around them. I see a moderate degree of imbalance in the stats, but I know that you guys are just brainstorming right now.

Regarding the names.....

Is anyone familiar with the naming style used for the nezumi in L5R?

[appleide]

Nice! Beleth... What happened to this?? You havent replied for so long...