Airiya (Iranian-type faction)

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Refreshed up a little on history, rediscovered some stuff:

Under assyrian dinasties every men seemed to be a soldier. Also, they had a special regiment of spearmen called Braves or Valiants.

Immortal were also the Royal Guard, not just a special corps, so i think steadfast would fit their jobs.

Thus, i came up with this:

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Airiya Footman-> Airiya Guardman-> Immortal; heavy infantry, steadfast

Mosuli Conscript (spear)-> Mosuli Warrior ->Mosuli Champion; sword/shield
                -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant; spear, group bonus if possible.

Mosuli Scout-> Mosuli Ranger-> Mosuli Marksman; sling/bow, names not patented.
Creating factions always seem to direct to long posts.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Sounds good. A mixed Iranian/Iraqi faction, then, could look something like this:

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Airiya Horse Archer -> Airiya Horse Archer Elect -> Airiya Horse Archer Elite -- bow, no melee, Parthian Shot special ability 
 
Airiya Heavy Horse -> Airiya Heavy Horse Elect -> Airiya Heavy Horse Elite -- sword & javelin 
                   -> Airiya Peer -> Airiya Noble -> Airiya Lord -- has leadership 
 
Magauuan -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy & cures 
         -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack

Airiya Footman-> Airiya Guardsman-> Immortal; heavy infantry, steadfast

Mosuli Conscript (spear)
                -> Mosuli Warrior ->Mosuli Champion; sword/shield
                -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant; spear, group bonus if possible.

Mosuli Querist -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger; sling/bow

Kardakes -> Adept Kardakes -> Elite Kardakes -- light infantry/javelineer 
The only question then would be whether there would be any reason to retain the Kardakes. I think it could be justified, insofar as the archer/slinger would have only a weak melee attack at best; the Mosuli infantry would have no ranged attack, and would be more heavily armored than a Kardakes and therefore slower; and the Airiya infantry would have a ranged attack (immortals were equipped with bows), but would still be more heavily equipped and therefore slower.

The Kardakes would provide cheap, fast-moving infantry that was adequate at both melee combat and ranged, but without excelling in any particular area.

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

At the evry least the Kardakes could be what is more close to a scout for this faction, seeing how all the horses are specialized in their fields. First turn, send the Kardakes, after that, recruit as needed. Unless it is too clogged up i think it will be okay... i guess they are being lvl 0's right?.

Well... i think it's on. Wonder when can we get some turin-ness here.
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Anyar
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Post by Anyar »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:At the evry least the Kardakes could be what is more close to a scout for this faction, seeing how all the horses are specialized in their fields. First turn, send the Kardakes, after that, recruit as needed. Unless it is too clogged up i think it will be okay... i guess they are being lvl 0's right?.

Well... i think it's on. Wonder when can we get some turin-ness here.
I think the Kardakes should be kept,or replaced with something that fits better, because this faction has only heavier infantry in it. The Persian infantry would be unarmored, save for a light shield that the infantry would carry, wield a spear, a bow and a sword(akinakes). Perhaps the footman can branch into the immortal line, the other into a light infantry line with a sword.
Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. - Muhammed

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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Anyar wrote:I think the Kardakes should be kept,or replaced with something that fits better, because this faction has only heavier infantry in it. The Persian infantry would be unarmored, save for a light shield that the infantry would carry, wield a spear, a bow and a sword(akinakes). Perhaps the footman can branch into the immortal line, the other into a light infantry line with a sword.
I made some changes to the Airiya Footman line, brought back the Mosuli Shieldsman, and identified the Kardakes as the faction's scout. Better?

Code: Select all

Airiya Horse Archer -> Airiya Horse Archer Elect -> Airiya Horse Archer Elite -- bow, no melee, Parthian Shot special ability; gains marksman 
  
Airiya Heavy Horse -> Airiya Heavy Horse Elect -> Airiya Heavy Horse Elite -- sword & javelin; has charge (blade)
                   -> Airiya Peer -> Airiya Noble -> Airiya Lord -- has leadership; loses charge (blade)
  
Magauuan -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy & cures  
         -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack
 
Airiya Footman -> Airiya Guardsman -> Immortal -- light infantry, spear, (gains firststrike), bow (gains firststrike), wicker shield
 
Mosuli Conscript -- heavy infantry, sword
                -> Mosuli Warrior -> Mosuli Champion -- sword, shield 
                -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant -- spear, shield
                -> Mosuli Shieldsman -> Mosuli Stalwart -- 6 ft shield, weak melee, defensive bonus to neighboring friendly units
 
Mosuli Levy -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger -- sling & bow; gains marksman

Kardakes -> Adept Kardakes -> Elite Kardakes -- scout; javelineer
Last edited by Temuchin Khan on December 20th, 2005, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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turin
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Post by turin »

Is the Kardakes Mosuli or Aiyira?

In any case, I really like the idea of splitting it making the distinction between Aiyira and Mosuli...
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

turin wrote:Is the Kardakes Mosuli or Aiyira?
Neither. While it has been debated, the current consensus seems to be that the Kardakes are loyal subjects of the Airiya.
turin wrote:In any case, I really like the idea of splitting it making the distinction between Aiyira and Mosuli...
Do you mean that you want them to be seperate factions, or simply distinct parts of the same faction?


In any case, I'm not sure I like "Querist" (even though it was my suggestion) for the Mosuli archer/slinger. Would this be better?

Mosuli Levy -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

I think the Kardakes should be kept,or replaced with something that fits better, because this faction has only heavier infantry in it. The Persian infantry would be unarmored, save for a light shield that the infantry would carry, wield a spear, a bow and a sword(akinakes). Perhaps the footman can branch into the immortal line, the other into a light infantry line with a sword.
I think they should be kept. Although i also am a little confused about your statement, i'm guessing that for "other" you refer the Conscript, but then we would have 2 light infantry by your statement (Persian and Conscript branch).

The way i see the faction, is that the Airiya (Persians) have all the heavy/specialized units, the Conscripts and Levy being the light infantry (names fit for this purpose too) and the Kardakes being the auxiliars that supported the Airiya.

Now i'm getting heavily confused, i had thought of each side in those respective roles, but now i'm... doubtful?.
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Anyar
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Post by Anyar »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:
I think the Kardakes should be kept,or replaced with something that fits better, because this faction has only heavier infantry in it. The Persian infantry would be unarmored, save for a light shield that the infantry would carry, wield a spear, a bow and a sword(akinakes). Perhaps the footman can branch into the immortal line, the other into a light infantry line with a sword.
I think they should be kept. Although i also am a little confused about your statement, i'm guessing that for "other" you refer the Conscript, but then we would have 2 light infantry by your statement (Persian and Conscript branch).
Well I wrote this early in the morning, and wasn't paying much attention to what I was typing. I was trying to say that the footman should branch into two lines, one with sword, the other with a spear, but I like what Temuchin has done with the Mosuli line though.
Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. - Muhammed

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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:The way i see the faction, is that the Airiya (Persians) have all the heavy/specialized units, the Conscripts and Levy being the light infantry (names fit for this purpose too) and the Kardakes being the auxiliars that supported the Airiya.

Now i'm getting heavily confused, i had thought of each side in those respective roles, but now i'm... doubtful?.
Have you ever seen pictures of Assyrian soldiers? They don't look like light infantry to me!

Kardakes may well be auxiliaries, but I don't think the Mosuli should be cast only in that role.

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Indeed.

If we are going the best of both worlds route (i'm guessing Sassanid Empire and Assyria after their military reform, the persian highlight IS the heavy cavalry and mounted archers, while the Assyrians were know for notable spearmen, footsoldiers, and archers.

With this, i think i can happily accept the changes. One thing i would like is merging the Shieldsman and Spearman branches, since Assyrian spearmen were said to be well organized (grouping), but also more mobile than others of their period.

I have the Kardakes issue as well, and i have no answer to it, i think our options are to merge the Airiya Footman and Kardakes tree (both are light infantry),or disposing of the Kardakes, since the Footman seems to get very good already as it advances.

On another topic, i recall that chariots were an Assyrian favorite and also used by the Persians, is the chariot a possibility or we would be asking for too much seeing how we already have heavy cavalry?.

EDIT: This guys are going Imperial right?, because i just noticed, that when you combine Persian cavalry with Assyrian infantry, i think you have an enemy worthy of the Legions.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:This guys are going Imperial right?, because i just noticed, that when you combine Persian cavalry with Assyrian infantry, i think you have an enemy worthy of the Legions.
Precisely. After all, the REAL Persians were a worthy enemy for the legions -- who else could have captured a Roman Emperor alive and reduced him to slavery?

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turin
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Post by turin »

Temuchin Khan wrote:
turin wrote:In any case, I really like the idea of splitting it making the distinction between Aiyira and Mosuli...
Do you mean that you want them to be seperate factions, or simply distinct parts of the same faction?
Distinct parts. Like the drakes and lizards are allied, but are obviously distinct.


Anyway...

1. I don't think a chariot is a good idea. A chariot would break the rule of one person/hex, which is OK for devlings and goblins (since they're tiny), but not a good idea, graphically or logically, for larger races like humans.

2. I'd like to get a final tree posted so I can create my graphical tree and start filling it in (like I did with the Kedari).

3. These guys will probably be located on the Old Continent south of where the Lavinians live. I'm still working on that map... ;)
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

turin wrote:2. I'd like to get a final tree posted so I can create my graphical tree and start filling it in (like I did with the Kedari).
I'm leaning more and more toward scrapping the Kardakes and using the Mosuli archer/slinger as a scout. Any objections?

If not, we could call this tree final:

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Airiya Horse Archer -> Airiya Horse Archer Elect -> Airiya Horse Archer Elite -- bow, no melee, Parthian Shot special ability; gains marksman  
    
Airiya Heavy Horse -> Airiya Heavy Horse Elect -> Airiya Heavy Horse Elite -- sword & javelin; has charge (blade) 
                    -> Airiya Peer -> Airiya Noble -> Airiya Lord -- has leadership; loses charge (blade) 
    
Magauuan -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy & cures   
          -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack 
   
Airiya Footman -> Airiya Guardsman -> Immortal -- light infantry, spear, (gains firststrike), bow (gains firststrike), wicker shield 
   
Mosuli Conscript -- heavy infantry, sword 
                 -> Mosuli Warrior -> Mosuli Champion -- sword, shield  
                 -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant -- spear, shield 
                 -> Mosuli Shieldsman -> Mosuli Stalwart -- 6 ft shield, weak melee, defensive bonus to neighboring friendly units 
   
Mosuli Scout -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger -- sling & bow; gains marksman
As for statistics, Anyar did preliminary stats for the Airiya several months ago. Do you still have those, Anyar? Could they be revised to fit this newer tree?
turin wrote:3. These guys will probably be located on the Old Continent south of where the Lavinians live.
Nice. Our Romans and Greeks will feel the wrath of Persia and Assyria!

Also, keep in mind that the Airiya and the Mosuli really should be wearing robes. We can get away with puttin pants on the Kedari, insofar as they are not pure Arab but rather Arab/Turk, but we will have no such leeway with pre-Islamic Iran and Iraq.
Last edited by Temuchin Khan on December 21st, 2005, 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

I think the cavalry, Maguuan and Levy are there for sure.

For the rest, if we go turin-mode, as to not make him work-crazy, the smallest tree for the rest that i can think is:

Code: Select all

Airiya Footman -> Airiya Guardsman -> Immortal -- light infantry, spear, (gains firststrike), bow (gains firststrike), wicker shield 

Mosuli Conscript -- heavy infantry, sword 
                -> Mosuli Warrior -> Mosuli Champion -- sword, shield 
                -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant -- spear, shield, steadfast/grouping(depending if grouping becomes possible) 

Mosuli Levy -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger -- sling & bow; gains marksman 
Cheap light Airiya with 3 attacks each weapon should do a nice trick as the multipurpose scout unit.

EDIT: One minute difference posts for the win!. I pressed submit and saw Temuchin had already posted. My argument, however, stands for analysis.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me :D
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"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004

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