Airiya (Iranian-type faction)

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » May 5th, 2006, 3:59 am

I guess it works for the Persian part. Maybe the Assyrian part can be neutral, for they have fame of being ruthless and relentless soldiers.

Of course, we could get leadership away and just stay with the two specialized types, since Clibanarii and Cataphract were all of noble descent, extremely trained and disciplined, so leadership may not fit in the equation very well. More probably the better trained or the older noble would take the decisions among the corps.

I'm thinking heavily on this, since it is not necessary to give leadership to every faction made. Also, heavy lawful cavalry should be enough (and leadership may be overkill), after all, they have so much armour i expect them to be more resistant to pierce than common cavalry.

I fear the Cathapract needs more than just a spear (charge), and consider a slow attack to be a good option.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » May 5th, 2006, 4:12 am

Cuyo Quiz wrote:I guess it works for the Persian part. Maybe the Assyrian part can be neutral, for they have fame of being ruthless and relentless soldiers.

And, as I mentioned earlier, Assyrian soldiers were skilled at many sorts of terrain as well.

Cuyo Quiz wrote:
Of course, we could get leadership away and just stay with the two specialized types, since Clibanarii and Cataphract were all of noble descent, extremely trained and disciplined, so leadership may not fit in the equation very well. More probably the better trained or the older noble would take the decisions among the corps.
I'm thinking heavily on this, since it is not necessary to give leadership to every faction made. Also, heavy lawful cavalry should be enough (and leadership may be overkill), after all, they have so much armour i expect them to be more resistant to pierce than common cavalry.

I have no objections to cutting leadership from this faction, if it would be helpful in the long run.

Cuyo Quiz wrote:I fear the Cathapract needs more than just a spear (charge), and consider a slow attack to be a good option.

How about this: hoof melee impact (slow)

After all, throughout history it has not been uncommon to teach warhorses how to defend themselves on the battlefield.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » May 5th, 2006, 4:19 am

Temuchin Khan wrote:How about this: hoof melee impact (slow)

After all, throughout history it has not been uncommon to teach warhorses how to defend themselves on the battlefield.

I love this just by the fact that is a melee attack, which should give a very interesting playstyle to the unit, since slow is so commonly in raged attacks.

Anyar · Post by **Anyar** » May 5th, 2006, 10:53 pm

So does this work?:

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Assyrian Heavy Horse (spear charge)->Assyrian Cataphract -> Assyrian Cataphract Immortal (spear charge, hoof (impact, slow)
                                 ->Assyrian Peer Clibanarii ->Assyrian Noble Clibanarii (sword and mace, with bow,)

Magauuan -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy & cures   
         -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack

Airiya Horse Archer -> Airiya Horse Archer Elect -> Airiya Horse Archer Elite -- bow, no melee, Parthian Shot special ability; gains marksman

Airiya Footman -> Airiya Guardsman -> Immortal -- light infantry, spear, (gains firststrike), bow (gains firststrike), wicker shield 

Mosuli Conscript -- heavy infantry, sword 
                  -> Mosuli Warrior -> Mosuli Champion -- sword, shield  
                  -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant -- spear, 6 ft shield, steadfast
    
Mosuli Levy -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger -- sling & bow; gains marksman

Also, would Airiya still be the right name for this faction? It is split between 3 different groups, with the actual Airiyan troops taking up less than half the faction.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » May 6th, 2006, 2:49 am

Actually...

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Airiya Heavy Horse ->Airiya Cataphract ->Airiya Cataphract Immortal
                   ->Airiya Clibanarii ->Airiya Clibanarii Immortal

Airiya Horse Archer -> Airiya Horse Archer Elect -> Airiya Horse Archer Elite; bow, no melee, Parthain Shot if possible

Magauuan -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy & cures    
         -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack 

Airiya Footman -> Airiya Guardsman -> Immortal -- light infantry, spear, (gains firststrike), bow (gains firststrike), wicker shield 

Mosuli Conscript -- heavy infantry, sword 
                  -> Mosuli Warrior -> Mosuli Champion -- sword, shield  
                  -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant -- spear, 6 ft shield, steadfast 
    
Mosuli Levy -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger -- sling & bow; gains marksman

Airiya are Persian-based, and Mosuli are Assyrian-based, sometimes we switch those terms to refer to their historical counterparts for inspiration. I love how the cavalry also has "Immortal" branches since Persian did seem to enjoy having any elite-something into groups of ten thousands.

Seems like the original idea for the Heavy Horse was melee sword (charge) and javelin. I'm guessing these would be the weapons kept for the Clibanarii (adding a mace and changing javelin for bow), while the Cataphract would change to his spear (charge) and hoof (slow). I prefer that spread, and we may change javelins for bows (game-wise the same damage type).

xXKelbaXx · Post by **xXKelbaXx** » May 27th, 2006, 4:49 pm

I'm a full-blooded Assyrian myself, if any of you developing this faction need help with ideas, names, or anything, I will be of service

I'm guessing you can imagine how excited I am for this faction

Edit: A couple of things I noticed...

The giant shields mentioned early were used in sieges. A soldier wielding the shield would protect himself and his fellow archer, who is shooting arrows into a walled town. In this method, when vollys of arrows are exchanged, the Assyrian archers had some method of protection. The soldier wielding the shield did not actually independently fight.

I didn't see a mention of chariots in the tech tree. They were a major part of the Assyrian army, but I understand that it is probably to hard to make a sprite for one that won't look too small or deformed. But if it is somehow made, the chariot would be driven by an individual and it would have one or two extra soldiers, either wielding a bow or spear.

Infantry who use spears do not carry 2-handed spears. They instead carry a short spear and a shield.

Swords were also used. The Assyrian sword is called a sapara:

It's basically just a curved sword that was used generally used more to impale and gut an enemy by attempting to drag his innards out by using the curved portion of the blade to drag them out.

A few terrain things: Infantry were used everywhere, if chariots are included, they were not used in mountains but dominated plains, and cavalry were used everywhere.

Here are a few pics of Assyrian infantrymen (robes were used as opposed to full plate mail or something)

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » May 27th, 2006, 6:22 pm

Well, actually what we need (like everyone here) is art. I can't frankenstein for the love of my life because my comp sucks, add my lack of trying and you get a big whole nothing.

Now, onto things discussed in previous pages:

On giant shields: Seems like the Spearman branch will actually be closer to the light hoplite-like infantry Assyria had. I should really have removed that 6 ft. thing. Siege technologies don't apply well to Wesnoth, even though turin has tried. We could add another branch, but we like to keep it trimmed. In any way i expect it to have good defense values as any hoplite guy which should keep Temuchin in good mood. Sorry Temuchin, i just realized 6 ft. is too big for an hoplite.

On chariots: Just as any unit bigger than a mounted combatant, it has been leaved behind (see elephants too). Mainly this is due to scale and graphics. The role of a shock attack can be filled by the Cataphract and Clibanarii any day, i hope, which would make the lose of the unit more of a flavor thing than a tactical loss.

On weaponry: Yes, sapparas would be lovely, and spears will come in hoplite-size (Spearman) and Airiya size. The latter may be too short to be considered pierce, so maybe blade would fit better, but that is a balancing issue more than anything.

Now... will the Levy have a melee attack. It just ocurred to me that if we leave it melee-less we can snatch some "siege flavor" like turin did with his Lavinian Bowman. Also, i'll make a quick search for the name of the elite corps of cavalry, i remember that one exists, maybe we can use that instead of calling them Immortals too.

Anyar · Post by **Anyar** » May 27th, 2006, 7:44 pm

Hmm... I already had given some Mosuli units with saparas... Cuyo covered pretty much everything.

Post by **turin** » June 3rd, 2006, 4:21 pm

Good luck. When you get graphics I'll add these guys to the Imperial Era. Until then, I wait on the sidelines.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » June 3rd, 2006, 8:58 pm

Found them. The Pushtigban were the bodyguard cavalry of Persia.

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Airiya Heavy Horse ->Airiya Cataphract ->Airiya Cataphract Pushtigban 
                   ->Airiya Clibanarii ->Airiya Clibanarii Pushtigban

Airiya Horse Archer -> Airiya Horse Archer Elect -> Airiya Horse Archer Elite; bow, no melee, Parthain Shot if possible 

Magauuan -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy & cures    
         -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack 

Airiya Footman -> Airiya Guardsman -> Immortal -- light infantry, spear, (gains firststrike), bow (gains firststrike), wicker shield 

Mosuli Conscript -- heavy infantry, sword 
                  -> Mosuli Warrior -> Mosuli Champion -- sword, shield  
                  -> Mosuli Spearman-> Mosuli Valiant -- spear, hoplite shield, steadfast 
    
Mosuli Levy -> Mosuli Rover -> Mosuli Ranger -- sling & bow; gains marksman

EDIT: Graphics... *hits head*

Post by **turin** » June 16th, 2006, 3:40 pm

I may start doing Airiya graphics... I'll use the previously posted reference pics.

Post by **turin** » June 16th, 2006, 4:48 pm

Yo.

[edit]
and a horse archer... the archer isn't as good as the footsman, though.

[edit2]
Some reference images for the Magauuan line would be useful. I have no idea what they are supposed to look like.

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » June 16th, 2006, 6:42 pm

Nice start, although it would be nice if there was more to differentiate them. Maybe give the horse guys a beard (because horsemen would have been richer, and rich guys tended to have large black beards in that area back then)

Anyar · Post by **Anyar** » June 16th, 2006, 7:09 pm

You might want to look at these pages:
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Military/ ... n_army.htm
Look at the Achaemenid, Sasanian, and Parthian sections.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ancientp ... y_frm.html
Try the cavalty, immortals, and guards pages here.

For the Magauuan:

This is probably the best picture I have found. These are modern priests, but...

Post by **turin** » June 16th, 2006, 7:25 pm

Interesting.

Here's a change to the horse archer... I think the beard makes it look too poweful, though. Maybe I should reserve it for level 2.

[edit]
the image