Idea for Far East Faction
Moderator: Forum Moderators
I guess it's a good idea at least for now to think about a few factions instead of one Far East inspired faction. I'm interested in this project either way. But I would recommend that we work on individual factions, trees, and units at a time, instead of proposing a lot of things which never end up being implemented. Maybe after we have some preliminary stats for a faction, it should be posted in a separate thread as well as on the wiki so that people can comment and contribute more easily.
!! We could even include Middle easterners and 'steal' them from the Imperial Era (if they're still there).Weeksy wrote:Like my original proposal with alignments and factions, I said we should have 4 (you could add the Koreans and make it 5, but I don't know a lot about them other than their cool boats) and have the Japanese be our lawful faction, the Chinese be lawful+chaotic or neutral+chaotic, so we have a mixed alignment faction, the Mongols be chaotic, and the Indians be neutral.
Koreans had excellent cavalry (and boats). They mostly fought with the Chinese though... So it may just be possible to put a single korean cavalry unit with the Chinese.
Hagabaka: That is a good idea.
I have also thought of a way to save alot of work and time. Make some units that are shared between multiple factions. (eg India and Chinese both have spearman). Here is a brief run down of units each faction will have. This will be all the 'big picture' we'll be doing.
Each faction must have 1. A Melee specialist. 2. A Ranged specialist. 3. A Special Unit. 4. A Scout Unit 5. A unit that can either fly or go into water.
A unit can be any combination of those. If you look in Default era and Imperial era, every faction fits that framework.
Let's begin with the Chinese spearman:
We want this guy to be relatively cheap but still effective in combat. This means average HP, average damage, average movement, and a reduction in gold for his mediocure-ness. He should also look like so. Yes or no?
Placeholder art, spearman with Neo's ninja (I think) 's body and bronze shield and spear.
- Attachments
-
- spearman.png (1.7 KiB) Viewed 6187 times
I'm thinking for the Indian faction we could have the war elephant be:
25 gold 55 hp
Dwarf Resist but otherwise wose movetype+10% defense
5 MP
6-4 melee stomp impact
10-2 melee pierce gore
and only get one trait.
A mace-wielding shieldman (not like the HI at all, with less damage, worse resist, more mp and more strikes) as well as perhaps a war chariot would be nice. We'll also probably need a siege weapon tree of some sort, or we could use the fact that before they had ranged siege weapons and just had mobile forts, they had guys who would sneak into the enemy fort (skirmisher?) and light it on fire (torch melee attack)
I want the basic idea here to be forest+hills for defense, but never letting those defenses get very high. Imagine a combination of the swarming, medium-damage northerners with the versatile, high damage loyalists, then pruning out many of the specialty units and taking away any ToD benefits.
An archer with 5-2 poison, 6-3 pierce, and perhaps a very small melee attack would be ok, we'd need a swordsman as a sort of cannon-fodder unit... I'll come up with my ideas for a tree later.
25 gold 55 hp
Dwarf Resist but otherwise wose movetype+10% defense
5 MP
6-4 melee stomp impact
10-2 melee pierce gore
and only get one trait.
A mace-wielding shieldman (not like the HI at all, with less damage, worse resist, more mp and more strikes) as well as perhaps a war chariot would be nice. We'll also probably need a siege weapon tree of some sort, or we could use the fact that before they had ranged siege weapons and just had mobile forts, they had guys who would sneak into the enemy fort (skirmisher?) and light it on fire (torch melee attack)
I want the basic idea here to be forest+hills for defense, but never letting those defenses get very high. Imagine a combination of the swarming, medium-damage northerners with the versatile, high damage loyalists, then pruning out many of the specialty units and taking away any ToD benefits.
An archer with 5-2 poison, 6-3 pierce, and perhaps a very small melee attack would be ok, we'd need a swordsman as a sort of cannon-fodder unit... I'll come up with my ideas for a tree later.
If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down
I am so new I am blushing
I am so new I am blushing
But, maybe I am determined enough. We will see.
I will start reading this thread from the start before posting anything meaningful but I would appreciate a pointer maybe to an overview of the project so I can have a good idea of where you are.
In due time hopefully I can help somehow.
EDIT
Oh bloody hell.
Is this project dead?
If anyone has material from this project, could you contact me.
I'd like to play around with it.
Arigato.
But, maybe I am determined enough. We will see.
I will start reading this thread from the start before posting anything meaningful but I would appreciate a pointer maybe to an overview of the project so I can have a good idea of where you are.
In due time hopefully I can help somehow.
EDIT
Oh bloody hell.
Is this project dead?
If anyone has material from this project, could you contact me.
I'd like to play around with it.
Arigato.
-
Dragonchampion
- Posts: 758
- Joined: November 6th, 2007, 7:46 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Ahhh, well, Ichi, I guess it is dead... I liked its idea, as well. Dang.
Ehhhh... don't mind me, I'm just the annoying little modder who gets on peoples nerves. I'll just lurk till Someone says my name. :P
Oh, and also Creator of The War Of Terrador
Oh, and also Creator of The War Of Terrador
-
Feuerbringer
- Posts: 2
- Joined: November 30th, 2006, 3:15 pm
Moin!
First, I want to say sorry for my English, cause I don't speak and write it very well. Second:
Thank you for the idea of a japanese "army". A samurai looks a bit strange among Elves and orcs but since elvish Hero looks like an Kenjiutsu-ka, I wouldn't be so irritating.
A few comments, who are all based on my experience and don't stand as the one and only truth.
Female couldn't be samurai. The could fight, yes. Every girl in a samurai family was trained for combat very well and could use more than a short spear or the dagger. They defend their home, their family and their purity. Shogun Oda Nobunaga used samurai women as a fighting unit (not well armored, but trained good), but they weren't samurai at least.
Ninja aren't only "elite assassins". They are many ways to become an ninja. Ronin (samurai without a lord) was offered this way to find a sense to live. Children of the clans were tested also and it's said, that "bandits" find a way in their "families" too.
There's no proof, that ninja wear black action suits all the time. At least, it would be senseless, cause black ist one of the baddest cover colors ever. Grey is better suited and was used. The best cover for a ninja was and is to be not identified as one. The "basic training" of a ninja includes all of the basic training of a samurai, so that they could use a samurai identity as a cover identity. As this makes only sense for male ninja, women where also trained in this way. Added to this, they are trained in acting (very important), stealth, fireworks (Kujiutsu, a fascinating way of "fighting" and very effective in a land with houses made of paper and light wood), poison and many more things. Survival, swimming, climbing and so one are skills, needed also by samurai...
Another cover identity is the sohei, a fighting monks (most popular sohei would be the "orders" of nara and kyoto). Advantages: Travelling monks aren't common but not so rare, they would catch much attention. AND they wore weapons (including naga and yari, btw.), so a ninja doesn't have to cover all of his fighting stuff.
A "good" daimyo (hm... Earl sounds as a good translation) have one (at least) ninja guard, posing as secretary, samurai, geisha or something other. Assassins and other attackers would be very surprised, when this "little girl" throw shuriken and could use the katana of a fallen in a very effective way.
"Die in one hit." I think, we all agree, that a good strike kill or incapacitate the opponent very good, so many weapons could kill with one good hit. But I think, that the "They kill with one strike"- legend is based on the "book of the five rings", who "explain" a way of sword fighting. A passage says: "Every combat lasts one strike and in the end you or your enemy is dead." That doesn't mean that you only need one blow, but that you END a fight, you are beginning or included in. Kill or be killed...
Naginata... As it was said, the naginata ("swordspear") is a possible "extra" weapon of the samurai, like the tetsubo (a two handed mace), the yari ("classic" spear), the longbow (another masterpiece of Japanese weaponfacturing) or the "No-Daichi", on oversized sword.
The Daisho (made of katana and wakizashi (peace) or tachi and tanto (war) (the "rich" samurai own both. A samurai gets his gear from his lord (or family tradition), so I can't say, that all samurai own both pairs of swords.) is THE Symbol of a samurai. Hir honor, his favourite weapon and his privilege! Against that, what american movies show, only Samurai are allowed (and have to) wear a daisho. The little sword in houses, if he wish so. But outside of a house, the daisho is on your side...
Chinese "samurai" doesn't exist. Japan copy many ideas and things (and gods!) from china (and vice versa), but the samurai idea and the bushido codex is a japanese thing... Some said, the ninja are also from china and were forced to move to Japan, but there's no real proof of this.
But weapons like the naginata exist. Cause it's a good "form" of weapon. Like spear, sword and bow many cultures develope their own weapons and you will find the "staffspear" in medieval italy and denmark also.
Guns and canons was seen as a "dishonorable" way to fight. Not the fact, you can be hit at long distances (bows!), but a gun doesn't need the training a sword or the bow needs. (Bowfighting is very difficult, if you want to hit a target more than thirty meters away) A simple peasant could use it and you can't really protect you against it. (Theoretically you can dodge an arrow... ore protect yourself against an arrow rain)
Another "myth" I read here, is that a katana is only good to handle with both hands. Wth? A katana could be handled one-handed. It's not a rapier but it don't have to. Use it one-handed is essential for "two sword fighting stile" who's often used with a daisho or with two katana, if you follow the way of the "five rings"
A way to include magic are the "shugenja" or "shintoist mages". (if you want to include China, name then Wujen). Specialise then in an element (fire, water, air, earth, energy), if you wish. perhaps an "energy mage" could be a level 3 or 4 unit. Mastering the "one element consisting and give birth of all"
Sorry for this long text and many thanks for this cool faction and very good looking Unit pictures...
First, I want to say sorry for my English, cause I don't speak and write it very well. Second:
Thank you for the idea of a japanese "army". A samurai looks a bit strange among Elves and orcs but since elvish Hero looks like an Kenjiutsu-ka, I wouldn't be so irritating.
A few comments, who are all based on my experience and don't stand as the one and only truth.
Female couldn't be samurai. The could fight, yes. Every girl in a samurai family was trained for combat very well and could use more than a short spear or the dagger. They defend their home, their family and their purity. Shogun Oda Nobunaga used samurai women as a fighting unit (not well armored, but trained good), but they weren't samurai at least.
Ninja aren't only "elite assassins". They are many ways to become an ninja. Ronin (samurai without a lord) was offered this way to find a sense to live. Children of the clans were tested also and it's said, that "bandits" find a way in their "families" too.
There's no proof, that ninja wear black action suits all the time. At least, it would be senseless, cause black ist one of the baddest cover colors ever. Grey is better suited and was used. The best cover for a ninja was and is to be not identified as one. The "basic training" of a ninja includes all of the basic training of a samurai, so that they could use a samurai identity as a cover identity. As this makes only sense for male ninja, women where also trained in this way. Added to this, they are trained in acting (very important), stealth, fireworks (Kujiutsu, a fascinating way of "fighting" and very effective in a land with houses made of paper and light wood), poison and many more things. Survival, swimming, climbing and so one are skills, needed also by samurai...
Another cover identity is the sohei, a fighting monks (most popular sohei would be the "orders" of nara and kyoto). Advantages: Travelling monks aren't common but not so rare, they would catch much attention. AND they wore weapons (including naga and yari, btw.), so a ninja doesn't have to cover all of his fighting stuff.
A "good" daimyo (hm... Earl sounds as a good translation) have one (at least) ninja guard, posing as secretary, samurai, geisha or something other. Assassins and other attackers would be very surprised, when this "little girl" throw shuriken and could use the katana of a fallen in a very effective way.
"Die in one hit." I think, we all agree, that a good strike kill or incapacitate the opponent very good, so many weapons could kill with one good hit. But I think, that the "They kill with one strike"- legend is based on the "book of the five rings", who "explain" a way of sword fighting. A passage says: "Every combat lasts one strike and in the end you or your enemy is dead." That doesn't mean that you only need one blow, but that you END a fight, you are beginning or included in. Kill or be killed...
Naginata... As it was said, the naginata ("swordspear") is a possible "extra" weapon of the samurai, like the tetsubo (a two handed mace), the yari ("classic" spear), the longbow (another masterpiece of Japanese weaponfacturing) or the "No-Daichi", on oversized sword.
The Daisho (made of katana and wakizashi (peace) or tachi and tanto (war) (the "rich" samurai own both. A samurai gets his gear from his lord (or family tradition), so I can't say, that all samurai own both pairs of swords.) is THE Symbol of a samurai. Hir honor, his favourite weapon and his privilege! Against that, what american movies show, only Samurai are allowed (and have to) wear a daisho. The little sword in houses, if he wish so. But outside of a house, the daisho is on your side...
Chinese "samurai" doesn't exist. Japan copy many ideas and things (and gods!) from china (and vice versa), but the samurai idea and the bushido codex is a japanese thing... Some said, the ninja are also from china and were forced to move to Japan, but there's no real proof of this.
But weapons like the naginata exist. Cause it's a good "form" of weapon. Like spear, sword and bow many cultures develope their own weapons and you will find the "staffspear" in medieval italy and denmark also.
Guns and canons was seen as a "dishonorable" way to fight. Not the fact, you can be hit at long distances (bows!), but a gun doesn't need the training a sword or the bow needs. (Bowfighting is very difficult, if you want to hit a target more than thirty meters away) A simple peasant could use it and you can't really protect you against it. (Theoretically you can dodge an arrow... ore protect yourself against an arrow rain)
Another "myth" I read here, is that a katana is only good to handle with both hands. Wth? A katana could be handled one-handed. It's not a rapier but it don't have to. Use it one-handed is essential for "two sword fighting stile" who's often used with a daisho or with two katana, if you follow the way of the "five rings"
A way to include magic are the "shugenja" or "shintoist mages". (if you want to include China, name then Wujen). Specialise then in an element (fire, water, air, earth, energy), if you wish. perhaps an "energy mage" could be a level 3 or 4 unit. Mastering the "one element consisting and give birth of all"
Sorry for this long text and many thanks for this cool faction and very good looking Unit pictures...
In a world of darkness some stand for the light
homo sapiens sapiens - was eine bittere Ironie
homo sapiens sapiens - was eine bittere Ironie
In the vain hope that this project would be resurrected, here is a sight with paintings of Chinese soldiers in different dynastic periods for the artists to look at. Note that the Ming paintings are the real deal, not something drawn by modern artistis. And no, the websight is not mine.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11867627@N00/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11867627@N00/
Thx, here is some more.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/A ... heMing.jpg
The left two are generals(mountain pattern armor and chainmail armor), the middle is a bureaucrat, and the right two are privates in brigandine armor.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... seback.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mili ... 6-1796.jpg
A picture of Emperor QianLong's brigadine armor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huo_Long_Jing
A Ming dynasty military encycopedia, with pictures
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/A ... heMing.jpg
The left two are generals(mountain pattern armor and chainmail armor), the middle is a bureaucrat, and the right two are privates in brigandine armor.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... seback.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mili ... 6-1796.jpg
A picture of Emperor QianLong's brigadine armor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huo_Long_Jing
A Ming dynasty military encycopedia, with pictures
although still a great idea 
-
Temuchin Khan
- Posts: 1800
- Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
- Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map
The Kalifa are Middle Eastern, this thread is about Far Eastern factions. Still, there was at least one historical conflict between Muslim and Chinese armies....Gena wrote:isn't there already an eastern empire?
The Kalifa :? although still a great idea :D
Check out my new book!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956715029/re ... oks&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956715029/re ... oks&sr=1-1
-
Abivard_MarshalOfMakuran
- Posts: 18
- Joined: March 1st, 2008, 8:58 pm
I would be tempted to suggest some special WML code on the die event called 'stampede' or 'trample' that drains from every adjacent unit freind or foe (could have a neat animated death sequence for that too). And to go with that more special WML that scares the heck out of any unit riding a smaller animal, like a horse. Maybe makes them pay extra MP friend or foe to go adjacent (and removed the charge attack option while adjacent to any elephant friend or foe, even if not directed against the elephant unit itself) as a minimum. Not sure what filter that would use since a high move can be other stuff besides riding horses.Weeksy wrote:I'm thinking for the Indian faction we could have the war elephant be
That'd be very 'elephanty'.
Just a thought, back to my own little project.