Alternative Upgrade for Necromancer

Post by **turin** » March 16th, 2005, 8:26 pm

I've committed the unit to CVS, using the name Dark Sorcerer, but I don't want to add it as an alternative to lich yet.

If anyone has graphical revisions, etc, post them here or email them to me.

scott · Post by **scott** » March 18th, 2005, 1:31 am

I just had a brainstorm. At this point people are probably getting used to the idea as presented, but this could be another way to go.

Dark Adept > Black Mage > Necromancer
Dark Adept > Black Mage > Lich

- The black mage name is appropriately L2
- It fits nicely with our current set of colored mages
- Dark mage also works, but I already have dibs on a similarly named unofficial unit. It also might be redundant (Dark Adept/Dark Mage)
- There is no bad blood generated by rejecting the path to Lichhood. A black mage goes deeper into his evil magic and can decide:
-- Some are content to control the undead (a very difficult thing to do, so it's a L3 task). However, their magic isn't as powerful.
-- Some go for the ultimate prize and power of Lichhood. They're more powerful but obviously undead.
- The graphics for this new unit look more like a black mage and they are more at the L2 level of impressiveness (i.e. not very but not bad)

Post by **Jetrel** » March 18th, 2005, 3:41 am

scott wrote:I just had a brainstorm. At this point people are probably getting used to the idea as presented, but this could be another way to go.

Dark Adept > Black Mage > Necromancer
Dark Adept > Black Mage > Lich

- The black mage name is appropriately L2
- It fits nicely with our current set of colored mages
- Dark mage also works, but I already have dibs on a similarly named unofficial unit. It also might be redundant (Dark Adept/Dark Mage)
- There is no bad blood generated by rejecting the path to Lichhood. A black mage goes deeper into his evil magic and can decide:
-- Some are content to control the undead (a very difficult thing to do, so it's a L3 task). However, their magic isn't as powerful.
-- Some go for the ultimate prize and power of Lichhood. They're more powerful but obviously undead.
- The graphics for this new unit look more like a black mage and they are more at the L2 level of impressiveness (i.e. not very but not bad)

On one hand, part of me doesn't want to go down the final-fantasy name-ripping path, on the other hand ... what the hell...

Why not?

scott · Post by **scott** » March 18th, 2005, 3:55 pm

We're already 2/3 down that path!

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » March 20th, 2005, 3:56 am

I know that you guys are going to kill me for this, because you have said repeatedly that you do not want abilities tacked on! But, you say that the L3 unit can raise the dead, yet he can't! Why not have a plague-similar idea that raises a walking corpse everytime the L3 kills a unit? You also mentioned the Lich being able to control the undead, so why not give it the ability to gain control of an undead that it "kills", for example, a lich kills a Deathblade, the lich gains control of the Deathblade. It would be named control undead. I know that WINR, and the main reason for these to be added would be realism, but, of course, liches, undead, and raising of the dead are not realistic either, so an acronym that should be tacked on would be WINMC(wesnoth is not mytholicaly correct).

Gafgarion · Post by **Gafgarion** » March 20th, 2005, 5:21 am

romnajin wrote:I know that you guys are going to kill me for this, because you have said repeatedly that you do not want abilities tacked on! But, you say that the L3 unit can raise the dead, yet he can't! Why not have a plague-similar idea that raises a walking corpse everytime the L3 kills a unit? You also mentioned the Lich being able to control the undead, so why not give it the ability to gain control of an undead that it "kills", for example, a lich kills a Deathblade, the lich gains control of the Deathblade. It would be named control undead. I know that WINR, and the main reason for these to be added would be realism, but, of course, liches, undead, and raising of the dead are not realistic either, so an acronym that should be tacked on would be WINMC(wesnoth is not mytholicaly correct).

It's implied that undead are raised when they're recruited... At least that's what I've always thought.

Post by **Quensul** » March 20th, 2005, 5:36 am

Gafgarion wrote:It's implied that undead are raised when they're recruited... At least that's what I've always thought.

There was talk for a while about creating death and recruitment animations, which would've made this obvious, but it appears that project has fallen by the wayside. (thread, thread 2)

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » March 20th, 2005, 10:09 pm

Makes sense....

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » May 24th, 2005, 10:26 pm

As a name, i've already submitted Death Archon/Necromancer Archon to the poll.
Being able to plague ( in melee) other units doesn't seem like going too far, after all, is mainly a caster, and a L3 one.

EDIT
The Archons are the leaders of the dark cults. Keeping their humanity and some sanity through sheer will, they fight alongside the undead with strong magical skills, spreading the dark arts.

Just my idea... and now that i think, Dark Archon would fit too, it's also term-friendly with Dark Adept.

NightBlade · Post by **NightBlade** » May 26th, 2005, 11:04 am

Why not use CHAOS MAGE for one of the lv?

Post by **turin** » May 26th, 2005, 12:44 pm

1) The unit is already committed and named, and I'm quite happy with the name. Its unlikely to change.

2) The purpose of the unit is not to be a leader, so Archon makes no sense.

3) However, I like the name Archon. Mal-Ravanal is currently an Ancient Lich, which makes no sense, since that is a special unit type, for Gwiti. I'm thinking of making him into a new type, called "Fallen Archon" of something like that. Opinions?

4) I think the term Chaos Mage would not fit with any branch of the dark adept line.

5) ...

scott · Post by **scott** » May 26th, 2005, 1:09 pm

turin wrote:1) The unit is already committed and named, and I'm quite happy with the name. Its unlikely to change.

2) The purpose of the unit is not to be a leader, so Archon makes no sense.

3) However, I like the name Archon. Mal-Ravanal is currently an Ancient Lich, which makes no sense, since that is a special unit type, for Gwiti. I'm thinking of making him into a new type, called "Fallen Archon" of something like that. Opinions?

4) I think the term Chaos Mage would not fit with any branch of the dark adept line.

5) ...

Archon sounds good by itself. It may have a connotation of referring to a living person, but that's not definitive.

Ankka · Post by **Ankka** » May 26th, 2005, 1:27 pm

So will the sorcerer-guy ever be added to the normal multiplayer?

Invisible Philosopher · May 26th, 2005, 7:31 pm

Ankka wrote:So will the sorcerer-guy ever be added to the normal multiplayer?

No, because he's level 3, and you only have level 2 leaders and level 1 recruits in normal multiplayer.

If, on the other hand, you mean added as an alternate upgrade for Necromancer for all of Wesnoth, that seems likely, though perhaps not guaranteed, to happen (eventually).

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » May 26th, 2005, 9:00 pm

If u can get an actual non-undead Archon as an advance for the necromancer in multiplayer, i would be pleased.

Maybe i'm not too fond of a skeleton in rags and like better the idea of a powerful necromancer, albeit a little insane.