Remove the grand marshal?

blackjack · Post by **blackjack** » March 2nd, 2005, 2:55 pm

I was looking through the thread for "level 4 Konrad", and I noticed that some felt that the level 4 grand marshal could be removed.

I think that such a unit can be quite unbalancing. As a matter of philosophy, I think we should resist unit creep and should try and have as few lvl 4 units as possible. I'm not sure why we need a lvl 4 unit with leadership which can really boost the power of a lvl 3 army significantly. Not to mention that it can really boost a level 1 unit to ridiculous levels.

Right now, the existence of the grand marshal allows for an odd situation in TRoW, when [a certain character] could potentially become level 4, if you really really work at it. I don't know if it adds to enjoyment, but I felt it's a symptom of the "more bigger badder" syndrome that Wesnoth designers have tried to avoid.

Any comments?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » March 2nd, 2005, 3:01 pm

I donÃ‚Â´t see any problems with the Grand marshal you can only get him in the single player else itÃ‚Â´s nice if you get a campaign hero that is different to the other units of your army.

if · Post by if » March 2nd, 2005, 3:10 pm

I think we also need level four units in other races who are act as Primary Leader

Shade · Post by **Shade** » March 2nd, 2005, 3:35 pm

As much as this causes an exception that I'm really, really, not that fond of Turin HAS grown fond of him & I've ifdefed around him... I wouldn't shed tears if he were to go, but how often does anybody see this guy? Besides, when else do I get to say, "This is the exception that proves the rule." That being said, I really wouldn't mourn his loss (or the loss of my ability to use that phrase) for too long...

Post by **Sangel** » March 2nd, 2005, 4:04 pm

I think that "nobody else gets a level four leader" is a pretty poor reason to remove the Grand Marshal. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The Grand Marshal has a place and works perfectly well in that place. Leave him alone.

Shade · Post by **Shade** » March 2nd, 2005, 4:34 pm

Sorry, let me be clear:

At this point Turin is 'fond' of it. I've ifdefed around it (The level 4 Aethyr was upstaging Haldric & Jessica as the real Hero of TRoW, the way it works out he is hero enough.) AT THIS POINT if Turin is 'fond' of it, I don't really see a huge need for removal to satisfy a 'rule of thumb' (pardon the phrase to those who are 'up on' their historical english common law).

edit: This is from my own usage. I can't clain to know the full effect this unit has in MP, if sombody wants to make a case about that... Well, they can.

Darkmoon · Post by **Darkmoon** » March 2nd, 2005, 4:38 pm

I am sure... sooner or later someone will come up wiht a lvl5 unit.... I am sure.. sooner or later there might reason for one,.... then grand marshal wont be even anything near special.

Perhaps in a campaign to topple down lich of all liches... or a mighty Konrad will make some great crusade in some campaign beyond HttT.... will achieve lvl5.... who knows ^_-

Shade · Post by **Shade** » March 2nd, 2005, 4:43 pm

Darkmoon wrote:I am sure... sooner or later someone will come up wiht a lvl5 unit.... I am sure.. sooner or later there might reason for one,.... then grand marshal wont be even anything near special.

Perhaps in a campaign to topple down lich of all liches... or a mighty Konrad will make some great crusade in some campaign beyond HttT.... will achieve lvl5.... who knows ^_-

It is fair for any campaign author who wants to do that to do that. Getting Uber Hero X in to CVS (mainline) might prove somewhat more difficult.

Darkmoon · Post by **Darkmoon** » March 2nd, 2005, 4:46 pm

True.

Ankka · Post by **Ankka** » March 2nd, 2005, 7:17 pm

Darkmoon wrote:I am sure... sooner or later someone will come up wiht a lvl5 unit.... I am sure.. sooner or later there might reason for one,.... then grand marshal wont be even anything near special.

How about Delfador?

Shade · Post by **Shade** » March 2nd, 2005, 7:37 pm

Ankka wrote:How about Delfador?

Because Delfador is the most experienced of them all

And that's the way HttT was designed...

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » March 2nd, 2005, 7:44 pm

My opine is:
LET GRAND MARSHAL EXIST

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » March 2nd, 2005, 7:48 pm

I really don't like the Grand Marshal is good either. I thought it would be good when it was proposed, but it turned out bad.

In EI, it's not good because the only good strategy (IMO) is to have a small group of elite units, and the Grand Marshal just doesn't fit there. If you spend the XP to get him, then either you're far enough along that it makes little difference, or you're early on in the campaign and you just spent a ton of experience that you could have levelled up a bunch of real units with.

In multiplayer, the only other place it's used, it's no good. It doesn't do anything useful, and breaks the "No recruitable non-mage level 4 units" rule.

Also, it prevents my Lieutenants idea from being implemented...

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » March 2nd, 2005, 8:03 pm

Grand marshal is so big problem?I never seen him, just let him.

Post by **turin** » March 2nd, 2005, 10:19 pm

I am 'fond' of the grand marshal unit idea. But not of the graphics - in fact, i think the graphics are some of the worst in the game. And if no one wants to make better graphics, I think the grand marshal should go.