Moonday Era

It's not easy creating an entire faction or era. Post your work and collaborate in this forum.

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DopeKiwiWarrior
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » March 30th, 2018, 5:51 pm

Requote:
Well... I tried to fix what you advised and now it doesn't show up in the database but has no warning file either. Do you know what might be wrong?
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

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IPS
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by IPS » April 4th, 2018, 7:17 pm

Well, here is my late balance feedback suggestions.

Balancing all those Cult Planetarium robots was a very difficult process because at their current resistances that's definitively an extremely disbalanced faction. You can have a look at the suggestion in the following .txt file.

I thought it would be much easier to do, but once revised cult planetarium had to really to run a lot of effort to try to do important changes. The other faction didn't have that grave balance issues but some of those at the Cult Planetarium was a real hard task, also actually that one faction feels a bit incomplete, needs of at least another melee unit that deals pierce damage and maybe something that has impact damage as well.

The real notable thing is that all Lv+2 units had price of 0g, so now all of them have my pricing suggestions now.
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Moonday Era feedback.txt
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Creator of: Deathmatch new in 1.12 server.
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DopeKiwiWarrior
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » April 5th, 2018, 5:09 pm

IPS wrote:
April 4th, 2018, 7:17 pm
Well, here is my late balance feedback suggestions.

Balancing all those Cult Planetarium robots was a very difficult process because at their current resistances that's definitively an extremely disbalanced faction. You can have a look at the suggestion in the following .txt file.

I thought it would be much easier to do, but once revised cult planetarium had to really to run a lot of effort to try to do important changes. The other faction didn't have that grave balance issues but some of those at the Cult Planetarium was a real hard task, also actually that one faction feels a bit incomplete, needs of at least another melee unit that deals pierce damage and maybe something that has impact damage as well.

The real notable thing is that all Lv+2 units had price of 0g, so now all of them have my pricing suggestions now.
Thanks a lot, IPS! Unfortunately I will be busy with school work until the middle of next week, so your suggestions can't be implemented sooner than around next weekend.

In that time however, you can check out the two factions you didn't review so far :)

BTW, Erimia has low cold resistances for lore reasons, as they reside in the hottest strip of land on Maasic.
I'm not that much of a player, I mainly started this era as a creative outlet, so all the balance feedback I get is a blessing as I have no idea about the principles of it and I'm very aware of counter-lore balance measures that might have to be taken in order to make my era the best it can be.

The 0 price on lv2 was just a product of necessity, it isn't needed for regular gameplay and the less I had to think of while creating, the faster content could come out, so thank you for that too.
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

Can-ned_Food
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by Can-ned_Food » April 5th, 2018, 8:40 pm

I like to add ### TODO tags in such places, either beside or in lieu of any values however possible.

I don't think of any balancing as being counter–lore. Either you can introduce something analogous to the pre–Copernican epicycles which works to provide something that allows you to shift the weaknesses to a strength temporarily, you can give them a Protector Animus which can help mitigate their weakness, or you can simply relegate them to campaigns only and come up with some new — or even reprised — faction to take their place in multiplayer.

P.S.
A friend of mine and I are developing an era which I think you might enjoy. I think you and he share some of the same creative tastes. I'll release more information when the time comes.

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Re: Moonday Era

Post by Shiki » April 7th, 2018, 6:05 pm

DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 30th, 2018, 5:51 pm
Requote:
Well... I tried to fix what you advised and now it doesn't show up in the database but has no warning file either. Do you know what might be wrong?
Not exactly.
At the bottom right is shown when the units database has been updated the last time, for 1.12 it's a month ago.
For 1.13 or 1.14, I do not find your add-on on the add-ons server. (And I'm not sure if unit.wesnoth.org refers to the 1.13 or 1.14 add-on server)
Maintainer of Era of Myths.
Introduction to WML filtering and WML variables.

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IPS
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by IPS » April 7th, 2018, 9:11 pm

DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
April 5th, 2018, 5:09 pm

Thanks a lot, IPS! Unfortunately I will be busy with school work until the middle of next week, so your suggestions can't be implemented sooner than around next weekend.

In that time however, you can check out the two factions you didn't review so far :)
I revised 1.12.6 server version and I cannot see that there are other 2 playable factions at all, I didn't revise them because I didn't notice. Let me check later if in the era's folder I can find the other 2 factions, but in game I cannot see them.
Creator of: Deathmatch new in 1.12 server.
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » April 8th, 2018, 9:08 am

CF quote:
Wow, I never thought of that. Creating lore to give a reason to balance can produce interesting ideas that wouldn't happen without it, which is supercool to flesh out the concepts.

I'll be on the lookout for your era!
Shiki quote:
For some reason it doesn't show up if you open the add-on server in a browser and only shows ingame. I don't really understand why. My add-on also shows in build reports for the 1.13 add-on server with no error lines yet without output.
IPS quote:
I should stress somewhere that the 1.12 version is discontinued. The maintained version of the era is now on the 1.13 server. Factions after CP are only in there.
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

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DopeKiwiWarrior
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » April 28th, 2018, 7:38 pm

BUMPY BUMP for anyone who even cares at this point.

0.3.1 published on the 1.14 add-on server and it's going to be there and only there. See changelog in main post.

I don't really know what will come next until I get any suggestions. I'd really like to balance the 4 factions that are currently available but I lack the required skills to do that, so I truly encourage you to post any feedback for the era!
If no one with balance suggestions is found, I guess I'll slowly implement all the planned factions.

On a different but related note, is there anything I can try to get more people to try out my era? It would really motivate me to see my work being enjoyed (or not, if the person not enjoying it has anything constructive to say about it).
Should I just be actively developing and wait for the fame or is there advice on something else I could be doing beside that?
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

Can-ned_Food
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by Can-ned_Food » April 28th, 2018, 8:18 pm

On the whole, shouldn't you implement all the factions first and then work on the rough spots?

Exactly how much an author wants their work more–or–less completed prior to release is up to them, of course. My friend's era, for example, hasn't even been announced — save for me talking about it here — because we are waiting until it is ready for beta testing. That means everything will function at least workably and every faction will be there. He doesn't even want to solicit for better sprites until that time.

Well, yackety yak: he wants to wait until I've gotten a fully working version of it prior to releasing anything. Something about a sudden introduction. It almost seems like you, on the other hand, are not so confident in your era and want some reassurance on likeability of the concept — both premise and specialities of the [unit_type] — prior to continuing your work.

If so, and you are looking for conceptual feedback, then releasing lore and a simple framework should be priority. You can do so with few factions each time, but I think it would help that people see them all in situation of the entire era.
It might also be helpful for you to post more verbose faction descriptions in this thread. Maybe a little background story about the time and place.
I.e. I'd be willing to discuss the era as a whole here, but I am yet running with 1-12 of the add–on client. Seeing as how http://files.wesnoth.org/addons/1.14/Moonday.tar.bz2 is not yet available, I am unable to review the era as you've published it. It would seem that the server needed a request from me for the index. It is returning a 200 code now. :?
Ergo, I'll give it a gander and pander to your demand…er?

If you want balance and gameplay feedback, you should probably focus on getting every faction at least playable and implemented. That way, those who want to test it can do so with the entire cast.
Also, I would hazard that you are probably more likely to entice players if you offer them something which doesn't seem incomplete.

As for more useful, albeit silly comments:
Would you be willing to reconsider the color choices?
colors
red orange for Bolotyaki (Swampies)
blue brown for Vetikate Kuningriik (Algae Kingdom)
green blue for Jaysh il-Ainhilal (Forces of Decay)
purple for Cult Planetarium (Planetary Cult)
black for Jaysh il-Zalaam (Forces of Night)
brown green for Yanka Runakuna (Jungle People)
orange red for Erimia (Wilderness)
white for Saytara Qamri (Lunar Empire)
teal for Avannarleqimaqinuiaat (North-Seas People).
Cheers :)

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DopeKiwiWarrior
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » April 29th, 2018, 9:50 am

CF quote:
You are right. I wanted feedback through development but didn't provide enough information in some places for that to be possible. I'll try to fix that asap.

As for the factions... yeah, you're right again, if all of them are implemented and the add-on feels complete, then people will be more likely to try it. I know I wouldn't download an add-on that said it was incomplete myself. And actually it's not that complicated to create the factions as I have made myself a little unit generator script to speed up the process.
Can-ned_Food wrote:
April 28th, 2018, 8:18 pm
As for more useful, albeit silly comments:
Would you be willing to reconsider the color choices?
colors commented
red orange for Bolotyaki (Swampies)
red because they like fire
blue brown for Vetikate Kuningriik (Algae Kingdom)
blue because water faction
green blue for Jaysh il-Ainhilal (Forces of Decay)
green because that is the colour usually associated with diseases (might be willing to swap for brown here, colour of rot)
purple for Cult Planetarium (Planetary Cult)
as explained in ingame lore (Planeta is purple, Arcanima crystals too when not team-coloured)
black for Jaysh il-Zalaam (Forces of Night) self-explanatory
brown green for Yanka Runakuna (Jungle People)
brown is the colour of tree bark (might be willing to swap for green here, colour of leaves)
orange red for Erimia (Wilderness)
orange because it's the colour of dried land and vegetation and, by extension, of sunlight, as yellow isn't available
white for Saytara Qamri (Lunar Empire)
white because the other moon is white (didn't have to be, but it was the last colour left)
teal for Avannarleqimaqinuiaat (North-Seas People)
teal because it's the colour of ice.
Cheers :)
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

Can-ned_Food
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by Can-ned_Food » May 20th, 2018, 4:34 am

Finally … :P
geography quiz
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Maasic has a large main Continent with a frozen pole north, a number of islands east, a big island west and a couple of disjointed floes south.
So, does that mean that there is an area of ocean which is devoid of land between the one large island and the archipelago of smaller islands, or not? If there isn't such an area of the ocean, then I would recommend tweaking this a bit to say something like
One hemisphere is dominated by the Continent. Islands sprinkle the other hemisphere, with the largest one located off the Continent's western coast.
there's a time and a place for everything
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Corresponding historic setting: late antiquity/early medieval

Fantasy level: high
Hmm. Not to commandeer the helm or anything, but would you consider describing their level of cultural sophistication and technology in a way which doesn't intimate it so closely with any piece of human history?
“Don't Panic”
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Inhabitants:
Maasikians (out-universe: a cross between human and elf): an evolutionarily plastic race that dominates Maasic through its adaptability.
“Maasikians resent all other species, calling them ‘Filthy rotten stinking samelings’.”
nocturnal psychic emissions
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Forces of the Night are a collection of foul beings who have succumbed to the influence of the Night (an omnipresent psychic force powered by the suffering and dark desires of Maasic's inhabitants). They are organized by dark magicians who use their powers of (not always verbal) manipulation to sway thugs, killers and mentally sick people to do their cruel bidding.
Recommendation: that there are no sapient, or at least sentient, nocturnal species on Maasic. Otherwise, their own psychic forces or whatever would conflict with the other people's. I take it that the Night is full of the unpleasant and perverse thoughts because everybody is diurnal, and so it is only during the night that their inner Ids and such thoughts emerge.
Not to come off as overly harsh, but Night=Evil is not so much a cliché as it is an expression of sectarianism. Not to accuse you of anything … :whistle:
you talk the talk, but do you …
As to the languages … Greek, Latin, Russian … Even if you cheat a little and say that their cultures are so similar to the cultures, contemporaneous and terrestrial, with those languages that their factions are represented with those same languages — that's not the same as saying that their actual language, in–universe, is identical to the aforementioned languages.
I mean, me personally would much rather prefer a mid–fantasy thing whereby their ancestors came from Earth through a crevice in the multiverse.
Overall, I quite like the intermingling of the races in each faction. Tells of a very interesting history behind the factions in their modern forms.

:geek:

Okay, so that's enough from me. Cheers.

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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » May 20th, 2018, 9:21 am

Can-ned_Food wrote:
May 20th, 2018, 4:34 am
Finally … :P
geography quiz
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Maasic has a large main Continent with a frozen pole north, a number of islands east, a big island west and a couple of disjointed floes south.
So, does that mean that there is an area of ocean which is devoid of land between the one large island and the archipelago of smaller islands, or not? If there isn't such an area of the ocean, then I would recommend tweaking this a bit to say something like
One hemisphere is dominated by the Continent. Islands sprinkle the other hemisphere, with the largest one located off the Continent's western coast.
there's a time and a place for everything
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Corresponding historic setting: late antiquity/early medieval

Fantasy level: high
Hmm. Not to commandeer the helm or anything, but would you consider describing their level of cultural sophistication and technology in a way which doesn't intimate it so closely with any piece of human history?
“Don't Panic”
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Inhabitants:
Maasikians (out-universe: a cross between human and elf): an evolutionarily plastic race that dominates Maasic through its adaptability.
“Maasikians resent all other species, calling them ‘Filthy rotten stinking samelings’.”
nocturnal psychic emissions
DopeKiwiWarrior wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Forces of the Night are a collection of foul beings who have succumbed to the influence of the Night (an omnipresent psychic force powered by the suffering and dark desires of Maasic's inhabitants). They are organized by dark magicians who use their powers of (not always verbal) manipulation to sway thugs, killers and mentally sick people to do their cruel bidding.
Recommendation: that there are no sapient, or at least sentient, nocturnal species on Maasic. Otherwise, their own psychic forces or whatever would conflict with the other people's. I take it that the Night is full of the unpleasant and perverse thoughts because everybody is diurnal, and so it is only during the night that their inner Ids and such thoughts emerge.
Not to come off as overly harsh, but Night=Evil is not so much a cliché as it is an expression of sectarianism. Not to accuse you of anything … :whistle:
you talk the talk, but do you …
As to the languages … Greek, Latin, Russian … Even if you cheat a little and say that their cultures are so similar to the cultures, contemporaneous and terrestrial, with those languages that their factions are represented with those same languages — that's not the same as saying that their actual language, in–universe, is identical to the aforementioned languages.
I mean, me personally would much rather prefer a mid–fantasy thing whereby their ancestors came from Earth through a crevice in the multiverse.
Overall, I quite like the intermingling of the races in each faction. Tells of a very interesting history behind the factions in their modern forms.

:geek:

Okay, so that's enough from me. Cheers.
Geography quiz

I made a second version of the map of Maasic, I am about to add it into the main topic. It's not aesthetic, but it tells what it has to. ;)
Time and place

Corresponding it to a historic setting was the easiest way to establish the technological advancement but you are quite right, I should specify that a bit more.
“Don't Panic”
I don't really understand what you mean by that but just to be sure - the cross is meant mainly physically. Introducing some concept of racism between Maasikian subraces might be a nice idea. Not to other species because, as is visible, they maintain good relations with the zóothrópoi at least.
Nocturnal psychic emissions

I can't really eradicate nocturnal life at Maasic at this point and to be fair, there's still a far greater amount of diurnal species, so any "good" nocturnal ones needn't have an influence on the Night. Also, the Night (capital N) is more of a concept than the literal time of day. Night (lowercase n) makes people see less and allow them more freedom than the day but it doesn't necessary make them abuse this. It's the people themselves who abuse night and thus succumb to Night.
But I might have to use a different word to avoid confusion and sectarianism.
Languages
The language descriptions are out-universe, I'll have to specify that. The use of different languages is motivated by three things:
  1. My own linguistic curiosity and a need to challenge myself
  2. Adding flavor
  3. As a crutch - I would really love to create conlangs for every one of my factions but I don't have the skills or time to do that right now.

    That should explain it.
    Personally, I don't really fancy the mid-fantasy concept.
Thanks a lot, CF :)
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

Can-ned_Food
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by Can-ned_Food » May 21st, 2018, 5:17 am

Thanks for the map and the technological overview!

The ‘Filthy rotten stinking samelings’ thing was a joke; don't worry about it. Or, I could say, Don't Panic.

What I meant about the nighttime was that diurnal folks would focus their fears and hidden hostilities, as well as any illicit activities, during the nighttime and therefore the psychic emanations would be mostly of that nature. If, however, there were folks who liked the cool, damp nighttime and feared the day, then they would counteract the psychic environ from the diurnal guys and things would develop into an equilibrium somewhere between.
I.e. you would expect an equally hostile Forces of the Day. Actually, you'd probably have four total:
  • Villains of the Night
    Sneaky monsters, hiding in darkness from those who rely on sight.
  • Villains of the Day
    Bold and brazen hunters of the soft and vulnerable.
  • Heroes of the Day
    Formed in opposition to the Villains of the Night: champions of the sun and light, masters of karate and friendship for everyone.
  • Heroes of the Night
    Likewise, but for the Villains of the Day. Protectors of the weak, hiding them from daytime heat and such things. +20% fire resistance.
Your era has inspired my creativity, it would seem. :Awesome:

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Re: Moonday Era

Post by DopeKiwiWarrior » May 21st, 2018, 7:28 am

CF quote
Can-ned_Food wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 5:17 am
Thanks for the map and the technological overview!

The ‘Filthy rotten stinking samelings’ thing was a joke; don't worry about it. Or, I could say, Don't Panic.

What I meant about the nighttime was that diurnal folks would focus their fears and hidden hostilities, as well as any illicit activities, during the nighttime and therefore the psychic emanations would be mostly of that nature. If, however, there were folks who liked the cool, damp nighttime and feared the day, then they would counteract the psychic environ from the diurnal guys and things would develop into an equilibrium somewhere between.
I.e. you would expect an equally hostile Forces of the Day. Actually, you'd probably have four total:
  • Villains of the Night
    Sneaky monsters, hiding in darkness from those who rely on sight.
  • Villains of the Day
    Bold and brazen hunters of the soft and vulnerable.
  • Heroes of the Day
    Formed in opposition to the Villains of the Night: champions of the sun and light, masters of karate and friendship for everyone.
  • Heroes of the Night
    Likewise, but for the Villains of the Day. Protectors of the weak, hiding them from daytime heat and such things. +20% fire resistance.
Your era has inspired my creativity, it would seem. :Awesome:
Well, to be fair, the era kind of has that:

Jaysh il-Zalaam as the night villains.

Jaysh il-Ainhilal as the day villains - most of their units are lawful because disease and rot prospers during the day when their hosts are active and warm. I also made the decision for them to be lawful to make them more distinct from JiZ.

Yanka Runakuna as the night heroes - their units are mostly chaotic despite being a faction more on the 'good' side of the spectrum.

And Saytara Qamri as the day heroes, which is pretty self-explanatory.

The whole era is pretty balanced in the alignment department - 4 factions are mostly lawful (Aii, JiA, SQ, VK), 3 are mostly chaotic (B, JiZ, YR) and 2 are mostly neutral (CP, E). Mostly being the key word because nearly every faction has an exception to that rule (i.e. Animated Snowmen are neutral in the lawful Aii, Sach'akuna are lawful in the chaotic YR and Kéntavroi and Erimioi are lawful and chaotic respectively in the neutral Erimia).
Creator of Moonday Era, go check it out! (And critique the hell out of it, because it needs it.)

Can-ned_Food
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Re: Moonday Era

Post by Can-ned_Food » May 21st, 2018, 6:23 pm

That seems reasonable. So long as there are reasons for why symmetry is or is not expressed, then there are no gaps in your ‘world–building’. :)

When i finally compile the latest source and can run the 1.14 add–ons, I'll look forward to playing skirmishes with you on Maasic.

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