The Reign of the Lords

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The_Gnat
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 13th, 2016, 5:43 am

NEW RELEASE 1.1.5


The 1.1.5 release is now out! It contains many bug fixes from 1.1.4 and also sprite changes to various units.
Full Changelog
(Version 1.1.5)
Made holy arrow master more holy
Gave dwarvish mountain king bigger shield
Reduced elvish battle enchantress and druids attacks
Jouster has a better face
Goblin ravager bigger body
Battle rager bigger hair
Battle sorceress looks way cooler
Battle druid looks more like upgrade
Orcish emporer has lead anim
Dwarvish sage has ranged anim
Goblin raider has ranged anim
Modified sorcerer of darkness
More anims for the dwarvish explorer
Orcish assassinator removed
Orcish ninja now advances to nightstalker
Mind Raid weapon special fixed
Comments are welcome and appreciated! Unit trees can be viewed here.
Last edited by The_Gnat on November 17th, 2016, 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by IPS » November 15th, 2016, 2:44 pm

Okey, I got a small look on your era and I see it's about lv3 and higher level units. Thing that looks to have to have certaint potential

First of all, some default units can't advane to lv3 to lv4, meanwhile others can (even if your leader option is a lv4 of that unit). Would sugest you to give all default units a chance to advance at least to lv4.

Second of all, I've seen that some of the new units have balance irregularities. Which means I will help you fix this. Give me a lapse of a week to post balance sugestions at this topic.
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 15th, 2016, 7:34 pm

IPS wrote:Okey, I got a small look on your era and I see it's about lv3 and higher level units. Thing that looks to have to have certaint potential

First of all, some default units can't advane to lv3 to lv4, meanwhile others can (even if your leader option is a lv4 of that unit). Would sugest you to give all default units a chance to advance at least to lv4.
Thanks IPS, currently i only have 5 factions (elves,dwarves,loyalists,magi & elementals, and orcs) so unfortunately many units (of all other factions) do not yet advance to level 4. I am planning on adding more factions soon however!! :D But if you see any elves,orcs,dwarves,loyalists, or mages who don't advance to level 4 please tell me also!!
IPS wrote:Second of all, I've seen that some of the new units have balance irregularities. Which means I will help you fix this. Give me a lapse of a week to post balance sugestions at this topic.
That would be great i haven't really had any time to balance it yet and i believe there are some large problems it would be much appreciated if you would help! :D

Thanks,

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by IPS » November 21st, 2016, 2:31 pm

This is the first part of 5 reigns feedback.
Loyalist, Orcs and Dwarves feedback.

Tomorrrow I will do the elf/mages feedback.

Edit:
thinking about orcish pikeman, you can add him a 13-3 pierce (first strike) atack without specials, to give him a better retaliation. In lv4 that specialesss atack can be 17-3 pierce (first strike). It's not intended to be that strong afterall, but would balance a little the damage during retaliations. Ofc if you want to, but I'm not sure if it's needed at all... considering he's specialist role.
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 21st, 2016, 9:22 pm

Hi IPS I really appreciate your feedback! :D I will have a closer look at it later today but was just wondering about the goblin ravagers horn attack: what exactly dont you like about it? I added it as the option to possibly deal far more damage with the risk of dealing very little. Also as for the pikeman I think I will leave him how he is because the orcs already have plenty of normal melee units so I wanted to add something unique :)

Also watch out for those mages and elemetal monsters almost everyone of them is unbalanced :mrgreen:

And again I really thank you for your help!

Also I noticed you think the dwarvish rune warrior should go from 65 hp --> 0 :lol: (slight typo, or maybe you really dont like this unit ;) )

Also you often mention a better enchanted attack special and a devoted special, could you give some more details on those (have they been already created or should i make them?

EDIT: also you have mentioned often that I should change weapon damage for more strikes instead. I am not as experienced a player as yourself, but wouldn't more strikes increase the average total damage inflicted? Overall 19-3 or 14-4 doesn't make much difference unless the opposing unit has only 36 hp or 16 hp or a number that would make the 14-4 unit have to hit one more time. Does it really make much of a difference? :D thanks!

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by IPS » November 23rd, 2016, 2:18 pm

You can't leave orcish pikeman as how is it actually, it's excesively B-R-O-K-E-N OP, Think about 25-3 with 80% at night if using backstab (not considering that if strong it's 28-3).

You would need to make him then 6-3 with precision + backstab OR 7-3 with precision + backstab and leaving him a 12-3 special-less alternative mele.

Units like the actual Orcish pikeman can be even more effective than Lv4 or Lv5 (which is WRONG) if rightly used (which in the case of THAT REWARD isn't that hard to obtain). Look at Knalgan Assasin who is 8-3 backstab only and he doesn't has any special apart of skirmisher or in the case of the nightaunt with that 10-3 backstab skirmisher which is only lv2 damage but if used backstab is one of the most deadly units in the game.

Why does this Lv3 orc has to be then 10-3 PRECISION + BACKSTAB? Don't know but if I were an era author instead of adding a unit with such inbalances I would prefer not submiting it; units with abusable stats ruins overall fun in the era and makes era to lose a part of its popularity.

Like I said, atack specials aren't costless, needs considerations and considerations can't be just be 'lower health' or even worse 'only higher price' because you can easly tank with someone else and taking the least damage with that specialist unit. There is no rasonable price for him except anything above 65g tier considering his specials; apart that like I said, that unit isn't fair as how is him. You cant give that much adventage to those players that find to use at maximun potential to just one unit.


About the strike/damage distribution, 14-4 isn't compleltely the same than 19-3, in overall damage it's like the same, but when one of the 2 options can one-shot an enemy, it's fairly better to use than the other or if any of the options needs 2/3 instead of 3/4 to kill. In overall, units with more damage but lower strikes takes less damage from retaliation when it's about to last hit ... if they don't miss. As well that units with more strikes are better to last hit units with lower health.

Apart, having 2 units with almost the same mele atack decreases the variety of posible moves, it's like a repeated role that another too similar unit is trying to fill, but with other atack/strikes distribution he would fit much better.

Explaining unit specials, that's why Lv1 horsemen are 9-2 charge and costs 23g, they can easly 23 damage in one strike without taking any retaliation, or if strong trait 25 damage without any retaliation. If their charge would be costless their stimated price would be 17g or 18g only. On this case Charge (the most underrated special APART of backstab) increases the price by 6g.

You can't pretend an orc to have 10-3 pierce mele-backstab and always 80% to hit, like I've said, that's absurd amount of damage that isn't honestly fair. If you think it right a 10-3 backstab 80% hit atack is like lv4.5 atack (higher than lv4 standards, lower than lv5 standards) but still, for sure not suitable for a lv3 unit. And more else, it has PRECISION on ranged, if you want to mantain precision over him at his ranged you would need to decrease his damage to something like 5-3 or 7-2.

Yup that's the weight of the special precision, just try the relative amount of damage this case to see why I say that is THAT BROKEN:

On this case, both will be at night and without strong trait
- 25-3 80% is actually 20 relative damage done per strike
- 19-3 from orcish warlord at 60% hit is ONLY 11.4 relative damage done per strike.
- 19-3 from orcish warlord at 40% hit is ONLY 7.6 relative damage per strike

It's cool to create unique units, but it's not cool creating unique units at the cost of general balance.


Devoted isn't yet coded, also on Era of Magic and on Ageless there are in Kharos faction a unit with a special that makes him 100% hit on retaliation. If looking at marksman special and that revenge special, I'm almost sure you will have an idea of how to work Devoted special.
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 23rd, 2016, 11:50 pm

IPS wrote:You can't leave orcish pikeman as how is it actually, it's excesively B-R-O-K-E-N OP, Think about 25-3 with 80% at night if using backstab (not considering that if strong it's 28-3).
I'm really sorry IPS for the misunderstanding! You probably think i am a foolish right now but I have NO intention of leaving the Orcish Pikeman/Vanguard in their unbalanced state, and i will DEFINITELY change them! I was very unclear with my statement and i actually meant: i do not think i will give him a alternative pike that hits more but has no backstab special. As you will see in the file i sent to you in a PM.
IPS wrote: Why does this Lv3 orc has to be then 10-3 PRECISION + BACKSTAB? Don't know but if I were an era author instead of adding a unit with such inbalances I would prefer not submiting it; units with abusable stats ruins overall fun in the era and makes era to lose a part of its popularity.
Yes i agree with you but unfortunately due to the scope of the project, i have been unable to make sure all the units are balanced. Which is why I am extremely appreciative of your help! Which is very important in improving my addon. :D :D

As for the rest of the units i will make the changes you suggested, but i would like to leave the Orcish Huntsman and Predator with "attack only" for ranged. If i add the nightstalk ability would they be sufficiently balanced, or do you think i should change something else also?

Also i am still trying to figure out what you think is wrong with the ferocity weapon special on the Goblin Ravagers horn?

Here are three ideas i had on changing the pikeman which do you think is best?
Options for Orcish Pikeman
1.
HP:65, XP:205, Cost:58

Melee: 10-3 Lesser Backstab (increases damage by 50% instead of 100% like normal backstab)
Ranged: 10-3

No weapon special that increases chance to hit
2.
HP:69, XP:185, Cost:56

Melee: 8-3 Backstab
Ranged: 7-3 Precision
3.
HP:69, XP:200, Cost:58

Melee: 10-3 Backstab
Ranged: 10-2

4.
HP:65, XP:210, Cost:60

Melee: 8-3 Backstab
Melee2: 10-3 Devoted
Ranged: 10-2 Devoted

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 27th, 2016, 7:51 am

NEW RELEASE 1.1.6


The 1.1.6 release is now out! It contains many bug fixes from 1.1.5 and it attempts to balance the Loyalist,Dwarven, and Orcish factions (thanks to IPS).

Comments are welcome and appreciated! Unit trees can be viewed here.
Notes
-Unfortunately the afterburn weapon special for the Inferno is not working
-The Orcish Pikeman and Vanguard have been modified substantially to make them more balanced
-The Dwarvish Barrager has a new crossbow fire attack
-The Orcish Huntsman and Predator have now the nightstalk ability also
-Thanks to IPS many minor/big changes have been made to the Orcs, Dwarves and Humans to balance their teams

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by Aldarisvet » November 27th, 2016, 9:49 am

I cant see your Era in Wesnoth units database
http://units.wesnoth.org/1.12/mainline/ ... nline.html

Must have some critical errors then.
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 27th, 2016, 6:45 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:I cant see your Era in Wesnoth units database
http://units.wesnoth.org/1.12/mainline/ ... nline.html

Must have some critical errors then.

It does load into the unit database under the name Reign of the Lords (which is the era name), however I have created my own unit tree because I use events to advance base units upto 4th level so in the database it doesn't realize they are advancing to each other. (It did encounter some errors last time it loaded into the database I unfortunately have to wait until next Friday when the unit database updates again to see if there are any more errors)

In conclusion the addon is completely stable in 1.12 but not in the unit database. Thank ypu for your comments all feedback is appreciated

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by Aldarisvet » November 28th, 2016, 9:43 am

The_Gnat wrote: It does load into the unit database under the name Reign of the Lords
I guess that you should change the name of the topic then. I just wanted to see that my Silver Archmage you said included into your era but was not able to found your era in the database. However, still not found Silver Archmage in the database in the Reign of the Lords.
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » November 28th, 2016, 10:41 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:
The_Gnat wrote: It does load into the unit database under the name Reign of the Lords
I guess that you should change the name of the topic then.
:mrgreen: yeah
Alderisvet wrote: I just wanted to see that my Silver Archmage you said included into your era but was not able to found your era in the database. However, still not found Silver Archmage in the database in the Reign of the Lords.
Yes unfortunately a bunch of units dont load into the unitdatabase because of errors in protocol. The era works well though and you can advance to it in the game, or find its description in the help menu. Its called the Mage of Lustre. Also if you download the 5 lords default unit advancements addon which adds it in singleplayer!

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Re: Reign of The Lords

Post by The_Gnat » November 28th, 2016, 10:55 pm

MILESTONE 1000:

I am proud to announce that the 5 Lords Reign add-on has hit its second milestone! 1000 Downloads! This is seriously impressive considering only 27 days ago we had only 500 downloads! I am very appreciative of all those who have downloaded the add-on, posted feedback and help contribute to this era.

With this news is also the exciting announcement that the 5 Lords Reign add-on is soon to become the 6 Lords Reign as the Dark Lord and his Death Horde are planning on joining the party! This will take a few weeks to complete but already the base 3rd level units have been included in this new faction in version 1.1.6. Like the other factions i am planning on making all the 3rd level undead now advance to level 4.

On other news, thanks to IPS the Loyalist army, Dwarven Kingdom, and Northern Wartribe have been mostly balanced. I will continue work on balancing the Magi & Elementals and the High Elves.

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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by IPS » December 3rd, 2016, 4:12 pm

The_Gnat wrote:
Options for Orcish Pikeman
1.
HP:65, XP:205, Cost:58

Melee: 10-3 Lesser Backstab (increases damage by 50% instead of 100% like normal backstab)
Ranged: 10-3

No weapon special that increases chance to hit
2.
HP:69, XP:185, Cost:56

Melee: 8-3 Backstab
Ranged: 7-3 Precision
3.
HP:69, XP:200, Cost:58

Melee: 10-3 Backstab
Ranged: 10-2

4.
HP:65, XP:210, Cost:60

Melee: 8-3 Backstab
Melee2: 10-3 Devoted
Ranged: 10-2 Devoted
Option 4 looks more realistic because Halberd can be used in 2 ways, as a piercing weapon and as a cutting weapon. Also for ranged I would try 8-2 with devoted instead of 10-2. Over 60% def targets, it would be dealing more damage to units than the Lv3 orcish crossbowman himself.

Probably the atack with backstab could be pierce type and the other Blade type. Also I've considered the alternative of adding instead of devoted marskman to the mele2 and giving it some higher damage (13-3 marskman, which is apreciable). Also ... considering pikeman as a backstab unit I find it kinda hard xD

Still, 13-3 marskman is usable for orcs even if there are already some other units with 3 strong strikes of blade mele, considering he would be maskman, also 10-3 devoted looks to work. Still at the cost of damage but giving him accuracy you can leave him 10-3 devoted which would be equivalent in terms of balance than 13-3 marskman (also marskman one is a bit stronger considering it has better retaliation damage)

But I would imagine pikemen as front line, asuming they will face enemies from the front, so maybe you can change his name to Orcish polearm. Also I would have no objections to give to the 8-3 backstab atack first strike special, would make him more interesting. Maybe marskman version looks stronger now xD

Maybe to compensate low damage from 10-3 Devoted version you can give it Counter special which makes that atack be 60% hit on retaliation, so the 10-3 blade mele would be at least 80% of hitting when it atacks and at least 60% while defending.
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Re: 5 Lords Reign

Post by The_Gnat » December 3rd, 2016, 9:18 pm

IPS wrote:
The_Gnat wrote:
Options for Orcish Pikeman
1.
HP:65, XP:205, Cost:58

Melee: 10-3 Lesser Backstab (increases damage by 50% instead of 100% like normal backstab)
Ranged: 10-3

No weapon special that increases chance to hit
2.
HP:69, XP:185, Cost:56

Melee: 8-3 Backstab
Ranged: 7-3 Precision
3.
HP:69, XP:200, Cost:58

Melee: 10-3 Backstab
Ranged: 10-2

4.
HP:65, XP:210, Cost:60

Melee: 8-3 Backstab
Melee2: 10-3 Devoted
Ranged: 10-2 Devoted
Option 4 looks more realistic because Halberd can be used in 2 ways, as a piercing weapon and as a cutting weapon. Also for ranged I would try 8-2 with devoted instead of 10-2. Over 60% def targets, it would be dealing more damage to units than the Lv3 orcish crossbowman himself.

Probably the atack with backstab could be pierce type and the other Blade type. Also I've considered the alternative of adding instead of devoted marskman to the mele2 and giving it some higher damage (13-3 marskman, which is apreciable). Also ... considering pikeman as a backstab unit I find it kinda hard xD

Still, 13-3 marskman is usable for orcs even if there are already some other units with 3 strong strikes of blade mele, considering he would be maskman, also 10-3 devoted looks to work. Still at the cost of damage but giving him accuracy you can leave him 10-3 devoted which would be equivalent in terms of balance than 13-3 marskman (also marskman one is a bit stronger considering it has better retaliation damage)

But I would imagine pikemen as front line, asuming they will face enemies from the front, so maybe you can change his name to Orcish polearm. Also I would have no objections to give to the 8-3 backstab atack first strike special, would make him more interesting. Maybe marskman version looks stronger now xD

Maybe to compensate low damage from 10-3 Devoted version you can give it Counter special which makes that atack be 60% hit on retaliation, so the 10-3 blade mele would be at least 80% of hitting when it atacks and at least 60% while defending.

Thanks for the feedback! I like all your ideas. Personally i think devoted is too powerful for this unit and i was thinking of doing this: (feedback and ideas are always appreciated) ( > repersents when he advances to the vanguard)

Melee1: 10-3 Lesser Backstab > 10-3 Backstab
Melee2: 13-3 Precision > 15-3 Precision
Ranged: 10-2 > 10-3 Precision

Also i was thinking it is a good idea to change his name but personally i think polearm doesn't sound enough like a orcish warriors name (neither does pikeman). I considered lanceman but once again it is not really a orcish name, orcs have names like warrior and slayer. So here are other ideas i had for names: (anyone is welcome to say which name they prefer)

- pikeman (old name), polearm, lanceman, commander, centurion, spearhead, warmaster, master lancer, lineholder

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