The Golden Age

[Paulomat4]

Hey guys,

I just played a match on the multiplayer scenario corrupted Forest with Forestdragon. Although we ran into out of sync errors halfway through because we had different version of TGA installed, it was pretty fun! But I think there's quite a few way to make it even more fun!
I think it's best qualities are the impressing surroundings. Impressing visuals and good use of sound make for a great atmosphere. I can only suggest to everybody to give it a try.

ForestDragon played as Undead and I played as Sylvans. Now, Although you weren't too bad ForestDragon I more or less dominated the whole map. So where does that come from? There are a few reasons.

1. Terrain
Besides that the maps looks really good It is still kinda one dimensional. The biggest part of it is Forest and flat terrain with one river and a bit of mountains. So that's an obvious advantage to the sylvan faction. Imagine PPLaying with dwarves there. That's a nightmare! But it is possible to draw a forest maps that still looks good but isn't that disbalanced. Place a few tiles of forested hills even one or two tile of normal hills here and there and dwarves already have a much better chance at this map. Now, you could also think about adding a few ruined castle tiles here and there (maybe even an abandoned keep?) to make defense for other factions as loyalist or undead.
More variety in the map layout + better balance = win!

2. Unit balancing
-The elvish hunter is ridiculously overpowered. It's melee is on par with the elvish fighter, some would say even better since he profits more from the strong trait. His ranged attack is far superior with slows. And his terrain defense is simply too good. why does he have 60%defense on hills and 70% on mountains?

Spoiler:

I saw that during the gryphon wave

I suggest making that 50% on hills and 60% on mountain like for all other elves. and maybe price him up to 19 gold.

-the elvish acolyte and it's advancements: why do they have such a high arcane resistance? 60% on lvl 3? that makes them perfect killers of fallen faeries which is the most common enemy you will encounter. I suggest making it -20%/-10%/0% for lvl 1/2/3. I understand that you want to use the parallel between them and white mages but honestly elves should be rather weak to arcane.

another thing that needs rebalancing is:

Spoiler:

the fire ghost wave. what are those, lvl 0 units? make them lvl 1 at least, if not lvl 2. They aren't even a threat for a lvl 2 leader alone. there are also a lot of good sprites for fire elementals.

That's what comes to my mind right now

Overall I really enjoyed playing it, keep it up!

[ForestDragon]

1. Terrain
Besides that the maps looks really good It is still kinda one dimensional. The biggest part of it is Forest and flat terrain with one river and a bit of mountains. So that's an obvious advantage to the sylvan faction. Imagine PPLaying with dwarves there. That's a nightmare! But it is possible to draw a forest maps that still looks good but isn't that disbalanced. Place a few tiles of forested hills even one or two tile of normal hills here and there and dwarves already have a much better chance at this map. Now, you could also think about adding a few ruined castle tiles here and there (maybe even an abandoned keep?) to make defense for other factions as loyalist or undead.
More variety in the map layout + better balance = win!

ok, i will probably add more forest hills and stuff

2. Unit balancing
-The elvish hunter is ridiculously overpowered. It's melee is on par with the elvish fighter, some would say even better since he profits more from the strong trait. His ranged attack is far superior with slows. And his terrain defense is simply too good. why does he have 60%defense on hills and 70% on mountains?

Spoiler:

I saw that during the gryphon wave

I suggest making that 50% on hills and 60% on mountain like for all other elves. and maybe price him up to 19 gold.

will take a look at that

-the elvish acolyte and it's advancements: why do they have such a high arcane resistance? 60% on lvl 3? that makes them perfect killers of fallen faeries which is the most common enemy you will encounter. I suggest making it -20%/-10%/0% for lvl 1/2/3. I understand that you want to use the parallel between them and white mages but honestly elves should be rather weak to arcane.

i guess something more like this -10%/10%,20% for lvl1/2/3

another thing that needs rebalancing is:

Spoiler:

the fire ghost wave. what are those, lvl 0 units? make them lvl 1 at least, if not lvl 2. They aren't even a threat for a lvl 2 leader alone. there are also a lot of good sprites for fire elementals.

Spoiler:

ok, i guess i'll make them lvl1

That's what comes to my mind right now

Overall I really enjoyed playing it, keep it up!

thanks!

[Angelonius]

I'm still waiting for the Flailbearer.

hmmm, the thing is, there isn't much to advance her from

I can help you with that.
Do you have any other female Loyalist-type units?

[ForestDragon]

hmmm, the thing is, there isn't much to advance her from

I can help you with that.
Do you have any other female Loyalist-type units?

hmmmm, not really, BUT, could add lisar as a lvl1 loyalist unit, she could be using the default lisar sprite for lvl1, and the new ones by doofus for lvl2-3, the flailbear can be an optional lvl2

[Angelonius]

hmmmm, not really, BUT, could add lisar as a lvl1 loyalist unit, she could be using the default lisar sprite for lvl1, and the new ones by doofus for lvl2-3, the flailbear can be an optional lvl2

Good idea.

[IPS]

New units balance

Loyalist - Battlemage
Unit that is being absurdly underpowered next to the other options. Would sugest for the no lv3 status the following stats:
- Health: 42
- Mele damage: 4-5 (marskman); the 4-5 is just to diferenciate more from infantrymen.
- Ranged damage: 5-5 fire magical.
- Maybe 6 movement points.
- Price of 38g, not 110 XDDD ...
With those changes she (no sprite for male one) is meant to be a partially quick and light unit. Regular 2 hbyrid fighter lv2 damage (standard is 24 for each mele/ranged or 24 & 21 for no weapon specials).

Loyalist - Rancher Balance
Overpowered lv0 unit with charge (can be 18-2 at day time if strong!). Decrase mele damage from 6-2 charge to 5-2. Also gold to 13g because only requires 2 kills to lv1.

Loyalist - Signalman
Illuminates is really a strong aura in loyalist. Could make him 13g tier also giving him 2-1 fire ranged sparks and maybe later a lv1.

Rebels - Pixie
Thei ranged is really cost efficent againist certain units even for being a lv0 scout unit. Decrease ranged damage to 3-3 arcane magical. Peri their lv1 would probably be more balanced with just 4-4 ranged magical (actually worsks as 8-4 arcane magical damage againist skeletons!)

Rebels - Elvish Shielder GRAVE BUG
They're 85% physical resistant instead of 15%!! WATCHOUT!

Rebels - Elvish Forest Warden
Looks a bit overpowered. Would fit their mele to 11-4 and rework their ranged to 11-5 instead of 14-4 (costing them 1 ranged damage in total).

Rebels - Grand Sorceress
Needs some revision. Would sugest to change the ranged atacks into:
- Fireball Damage to 13-4 (instead of 16-3) - (Grandmages fireballs are 16-4!).
- Reworking Magic nova to 17-3 from 26-2 (-1 damage only).

Rebels - Elvish Windmaker
- Tornado doubt: Does it damage the 2 adjacement units between the atacker and the defenders or all 6 units next to windmaker? This is necesary to know for better balance.

Rebels - Elvish High Priest
She's actually jumping from lv3 to lv5 saving a tons of xp. This needs fixing.

Rebels - Wose Shaman
Like in War of Chaos era, this one needs nerfing. Considering you made stronger mele from 13-2 to 15-2 when advancing to lv2, would sugest leaving wose shaman ranged to 8-2 slows.

Outlaws - Arsonist.
Actually kinda cost effective. Would lower mele damage from 8-2 to 7-2 (he moves 6 tiles)

Outlaws - Naga Marskman
Considering the no lv3 status, try modificating the 1 strike damage to 24-1 + poison too.

Outlaws - Young Ogre
Try to give to all the line 10% cold resistance to perform them less mediocre and maybe some kind of swallow (+4 current health for each kill in living unit)

Dwarves - Bear rider
Actually they're too tank ... belive me they're really tought... would sugest the following:
- Lower all no hill/mountains/forest/cave/mushroom defenses by -10%.
- Increase ram damage to 12-1 considering it's a risk on play atack so players could be better rewarded by gambling.
- To make them less offensively cost ineficent change their mele to 5-4 and 7-3 impact mele.
- Decrease blade/pierce resistance to only 20% for lv1 line
- Considering resistances/defense nerfs make them 44 hp (+4 hp)
- Consider repricing them to 24g with the following changes.
- Increase their xp by +25% for the improved lv2 versions.

Dwarves - Bear Calvary
I don't know, this unit sounds something terrible to face with and expensive to mantain. Let's make them among strongest lv2 units!
- Ram damage to 18-1 (Knights are 14-2 & lancers 12-3, heh, 18-1 isn't that much at all... just that it has intereting chances to kill lv1 units in one hit)
- Hammer damage 10-3 & Bite 8-4 damage. Yup, 2 lv2 weapons in 2 diferent atack types (apart of the extra charge)
- Defense nerfs as well as sugested in lv1.
- Reprice to 42g.
- Increase XP value by 25% more considering the improved version for lv3.

Dwarves - Bear Dragoon
Let's make them a really beast lv3 unit, they're farking dwarves riding bears!
- Ram damage to 26-1 (Grand Knigths are 17-2, no problem, interesting chances to one shot some lv2 )
- Hammer damage to 14-3 & Bite 11-4. Both lv3 damages.
- Don't forget the terrain nerfs on those as well.
- Reprice them to 54g.
- Increase +10% xp value for the improved lv4 unit.

Dwarvish Munted King
- Ram damage to 34-1
- Hammer damage to 18-3
- Bite damage to 14-4
- Don't forget bear terrain def nerfs
- Reprice this unit to 75g, it's too cheap actually

Dwarvish Bear Patrol
- Ram damage to 14-1
- Just nerf their blade/pierce resistances to 20%.
- Let's not aplicate their terrain defense on this line.
- Reprice to 42g.
- Increase xp by 20%.
Coment: belive me, that 10% terrain def makes an huge diference, that's why I'm not increasing damage apart of Ram.

Dwarvish Thundra Hunter
- NEW WEAPON: Thunderstick 30-1 !
- Bite damage to 8-4 blade mele.
- Lower blade/pierce resistance by only 10%
- Reprice them to 54g.
- Increase their xp by 10% for their improved lv4.

Dwarvish Iron Bear
- Ram Damage to 26-1 (same than Bear Dragoon)
- NEW WEAPON: Thunderstick 42-1
- Javelin damage to 15-3 (lv3 archer damage)
- Bite damage to 10-4
- Lower blade/pierce resistance by 10%.
- Reprice them to 70g (for now)

Dwarves - Dwarvish Torch bearer
Would sugest to make their ranged to 3-3 to diferenciate more from arsonists. To his level up would aplicate the same nerf on ranged; 4-4 ranged.

Undead - Skeleton Rider
Obvious overprice, Would reprice it to 16g because it's inferior than loyalist calvaryman just because no traits and much worser resistances overall.

Khalifate - Alquasir bug
No lv2 advancement showen.



Well this is all for now. I Will post a balance sugesion later for the tornado faerie.

[Durin_the_great]

Just a quick bug report: elves can recruit lv3 hunters, probably because, according to encyclopedia, civil can advance to hunter and thus hunter is counted as lv1.

[ForestDragon]

Just a quick bug report: elves can recruit lv3 hunters, probably because, according to encyclopedia, civil can advance to hunter and thus hunter is counted as lv1.

you mean Elvish Prowler (which is the level3 for Hunter)?

[Durin_the_great]

That is the point. The unit is named "Elvish hunter", has a big bow, costs 55 gold, is a lv3 and has 8-3 melee and 11-4 ranged poison.

[ForestDragon]

hmmmm... i don't have any unit like that. If you have another era installed, then it's probably because both of the units have the same id

[Eagle_11]

put an unique prefix before unit id's to prevent such silly conflicts, "prefix Unitidhere".
anyhow, i have seen this unused sprite in undead folder of your era and couldnt prevent myself from applying teamcolor to it.

ultra_nightgaunt2.png (6.17 KiB) Viewed 4465 times

[ForestDragon]

put an unique prefix before unit id's to prevent such silly conflicts, "prefix Unitidhere".
anyhow, i have seen this unused sprite in undead folder of your era and couldnt prevent myself from applying teamcolor to it.

ultra_nightgaunt2.png

thanks, but i already decided to give it teamcolor in the next update

[Eagle_11]

umm, i have repaired that pinky elite protector into those.

[ForestDragon]

umm, i have repaired that pinky elite protector into those.

thanks i'll add them in the next update

[Paulomat4]

Hey,
As you didn't have time to finish our Match, i replayed the entire scenario while playing both sides. I went Undead and elves. The elvish side definitely had it easier than the undead, although those weren't fairing that Bad as well. I guess that's due to the lack of healing they have. I don't know how, but maybe you could Code something to counter this advantage. Or you could place more villages. That would reduce the importance of healers AND reduce the Problem that at some point you've got too many high level units so you get negative income. In return you could reduce the starting gold a bit to Balance this out.

The Ending was impressive! :O i've rarely Seen such Visuals in wesnoth. Definitely on the same lvl as IftU-Bossfights. Really enjoyed it!

Overall I have to say that the waves were rather easy if you can avoid fallen faeries ganging up on you (by blocking the trees).
The end on the other side was really hard and although I had two really good factions i was reduced to only my leader on one side.
So i'd suggest to make the normal Wave a tad harder and the bossfights a bit easier