New Settlers era

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Re: New Settlers era

Postby enclave » September 20th, 2017, 12:02 pm

There was comment that ns_oos_1.all_units was fix for oos when generating large random maps. I was just wondering if you have recorded somewhere parameters which could reproduce the issue.

no, i haven't I only know that it was happening with bigger maps or bigger amount of players.. usually more than 4.. and wasn't easy to reproduce on same computer.. so NS had this issue for a long time..
turned out developers already knew about the problem and I'm quite sure I was told that in 1.13 it is fixed.

But to reduce the implact of duplication scenario and era can remove all unnecessary events. That makes at least snapshot smaller.

I see, that all explains a lot of things.

I tried to observe your yesterdays europe game from server replay, it says "Warning: register_lua_file: File (~add-ons/New_Settlers_lua_mod/core/player.lua) not found! This can be ignored if you are not hosting the game." and never loads any controls to start the replay. I removed the NS lua mod this time to test it.
enclave
 
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Re: New Settlers era

Postby shrieker1 » September 20th, 2017, 2:03 pm

enclave wrote:
There was comment that ns_oos_1.all_units was fix for oos when generating large random maps. I was just wondering if you have recorded somewhere parameters which could reproduce the issue.

no, i haven't I only know that it was happening with bigger maps or bigger amount of players.. usually more than 4.. and wasn't easy to reproduce on same computer.. so NS had this issue for a long time..
turned out developers already knew about the problem and I'm quite sure I was told that in 1.13 it is fixed.


Ok. So it is a core wesnoth but like I suspected a bit. If it is fixed in 1.13 I guess the best that NS code can do is add version checks around the workaround for the wesnoth bug.

enclave wrote:I tried to observe your yesterdays europe game from server replay, it says "Warning: register_lua_file: File (~add-ons/New_Settlers_lua_mod/core/player.lua) not found! This can be ignored if you are not hosting the game." and never loads any controls to start the replay. I removed the NS lua mod this time to test it.


Thanks!

The register_lua_file warning was supposed to be info level message if player doesn't have local lua code at all (core/main.lua missing). But I had the levels wrong way around and it was downgraded to info level if local lua was present. I still wanted to keep the warning because it would catch annoying bugs if filename has a spelling mistake and reloading lua code would only load correctly spelled filenames.

The replay not showing controls was a bug that observers and replay would end up to a lua forever loop. I tested observing in a earlier version but this was a new bug. The fix actually made the code ending to a forever loop much simpler. First time writing the code I had implemented a bit more complex algorithm than necessary.

I also applied those two fixes to the replay and it worked for me with a new empty wesnoth user data dir. The fixed replay is attached to here.
Attachments
NSL_Europe_small_-_Balance_Edition_Turn_6_(175754).bz2
Fixed NSL_Europe test raplay
(127.82 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
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Re: New Settlers era

Postby Zap-Zarap » September 23rd, 2017, 5:35 am

enclave wrote:Problem #1: economy matters more than anything..

How about (an option?) to limit the number of peasants/workers (but not the max number of total units?). That could push game experience to more weight on army and less on economy (if desired by players).
E.g. limiting the total number of vils wouldn't be a good idea, i think, because you'll need some for healing units, too.
I like beavers.
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Re: New Settlers era

Postby shrieker1 » September 23rd, 2017, 7:24 pm

Zap-Zarap wrote:
enclave wrote:Problem #1: economy matters more than anything..

How about (an option?) to limit the number of peasants/workers (but not the max number of total units?). That could push game experience to more weight on army and less on economy (if desired by players).
E.g. limiting the total number of vils wouldn't be a good idea, i think, because you'll need some for healing units, too.



Problem is more how economy growth happens. That means basic game rules around income generation needs tweaking to make other things matter enough to have impact on the possible winning strategies. Currently pretty much only winning strategies are 1) maximize income and research, then over power everyone safely in the late game 2) rush your enemy with an early surprise attack. quickly destroy their income. This is automatic lose if can't reduce opponent's economy enough. Nothing else really has any chance to work.

To improve economy for game play targets are:
* Reducing income growth closer to linear
* Making it harder to have huger armies that can simple replace loses and rotate harmed units to heal behind the front line

For income growth research and how peasants are recruited can help. To reduce extreme army sizes some kind of military maintenance would put a soft limit how many units can be recruited. But all these changes require also changes to unit prices and unit research speeds to make it work. Changing one subsystem only may make game play worse even tough it can be step towards a better game play system. That means economy changes will take a bit time. Then it will of course need some practical testing to tweak all parameters to balance different strategies.
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Re: New Settlers era

Postby enclave » October 3rd, 2017, 5:38 pm

Hi Shrieker, just a few observations about your era, didn't investigate much.
1) Observing new settlers lua mod from server gives OOS errors (with NO add-on installed, have not tried with add-on downloaded yet)
2) Right click option on peasant - second one down is saying something like "game rules dont permit building here", but in first option u can build village etc on that hex.. confusing ;)
3) Try to play NS_Valeria map with your add-on for 1 turn, build couple villages, you will understand what is wrong, without me describing it here, unless you are using the latest intel processor from top1 benchmark ;)
4) Still saying /msg Goddzilla and enclave on forums for ideas etc.. in objectives message.
Was only going to write 2 points, but remembered more :D Thanks!
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