RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

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Dugi
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RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

UPDATE: The beginning of this thread is outdated, as this add-on is complete now. Better at the final part of the thread.

Someone might remember this era for Wesnoth 1.8. Basically, most of the things were not changed, just when a unit on its maxiumum gained a level, instead of gaining 2 HP you could choose from a list of particular advancements, mostly improved attacks, defence, sometimes extra abilities...

I am making a version of it for Wesnoth 1.10. It works at the moment, but a new release would need a bit more new things than just a few bug fixes and compatibility with the new version of the game.

So far, I have added an advancement allowing some attacks to hit multiple enemies, and a leadership-like ability to make others use berserk.

I think that I will add a possibility to buy some pickuppable items (but I don't want to add an inventory system; you just left-click somewhere, pick the menu option, pay 40 gold and a sword increasing damage, setting its type to arcane and adding the illuminates ability will appear on the ground for you or your ally to pick up; or something else, I have quite a long list of items in LotI).

I am also thinking about making it possible to choose whether the unit should get its melee damage increased, ranged damage increased, its hp increased or be fully healed after that a unit takes the advancement that is typical for this era (like skill increase and attribute increase in some games). However, I don't want any attribute system, this is still a strategy game, not a mod turning it into an RPG.

In this topic, I am asking everyone who liked my era, or just anyone who feels like doing it, to tell me what also should be there.

I can imagine also some summoning for gold or exp, absorbing damage (the unit is healed at bit when hit), reflecting damage (a part of the attacker's damage will hurt the attacker), some terrain transformations, a leadership-like thing increasing chance to hit instead of damage, moving enemy units somehow...
I have learned quite a few things after writing that era.
Last edited by Dugi on March 22nd, 2012, 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The_Other
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by The_Other »

I'd advise you to have a look at the AMLA system from the Five Fates campaign for some good examples of this kind of thing.
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RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

That is not exactly what I wanted. Well, this add-on has a lot of AMLA things, but there is not too many things that are not in my era as well. Most of the things that are not in my era are things that I don't know if I should put there or not (the ability to summon units for gold) - and I am asking for feedback from those who remember my era and can decide if it would or would not be unbalancing.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by masterofshadows »

Well, it's good that you fixed the bug in LotI. Indeed the bug totally screwed up the dialogues.
The berserk 'leadership' for the dwarves could be a good idea, I would advice you to give that ability to the Berserker (as an upgrade, of course). Also the damage reflection sounds good, but the ability to teleport on grass might be a bit over the top. The summoning idea is good, although I hate the loss of movement and attacks in To lands Unknown (a campaign with summoning ability).
I think it might be a good idea to give splash damage (or slow) to Ancient Lich. The fire breath of Armageddon Drake could have some sort of splash poison, you could call it 'inflammate' or something...
Indeed the idea of giving less HP is nice, else units can become overpowered. Maybe you could also add something like 'mountainstalk' for Dwarvish Pathfinder for example.
And, indeed, it's a strategy game, not an RPG. So it must not be too complicated (like it becomes with big inventory systems and stored items for later use). The terrain altering function might be useful, but some maps get totally out of balance if you alter the terrain. And for the resistances, I would advice you to keep them under 70% for it would otherwise make units too hard to kill. It's a strategy game, and a real good strategy game needs to be hard sometimes!
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

Good idea with that poison-inflicting fire-breath of Armageddon Drakes, and with the mass-chilling iceblast of Ancient Liches.
Mountainstalk is a nice idea, but Dwarvish Pathfinder is not present in multiplayer, and I don't want to alter the recruit lists.
I was not thinking about making a summoner unit lose attacks and moves after summoning (I have never tried To Lands Unknown), it was rather intended like allowing a unit to recruit outside a keep (summons 50% more expensive, or something similar).
I agree with you that the terrain changes could change things badly (an Elvish Druid grows a forest while the others fight, and then they will retreat there and fight with awesome defence). The grass teleport would allow silver mages (I was intending to give it only to them) to assassinate the enemy leader right after that he stops recruiting, and assassinating leaders is something I hate a lot, so it won't be there as you suggested.
The berserker inspiration ability can be gained only by berserkers, and affects only dwarves' melee attacks. I am thinking about giving marksman-leadership to elvish sharpshooters, horror-leadership to Armageddon Drake (that weapon special that decreased the defenders' recoil damage), poison-leadership to ghasts. Loyalists already have resistance-leadership.
I wonder to whom should I give the damage reflection ability, paladins and mages of light so that the remorse burns the attacker?
Right now, I am trying to code a weapon special that throws units adjacent to the target away (and possibly slows them, maybe with another advancement).
A few more questions: There were some extra units in LotI, should they be also in RPG AMLA Era? I personally don't think it is a good idea.
Should the units' level increase after that they level-up after reaching the maximum level? This might make the exp rewards for fighting heavily advanced units worth the effort.

UPDATE:
Now, units gain 2 hp when they level-up (even if it is not AMLA), and you can select if you want 1 exta point of melee damage, 1 extra point of ranged damage, 10% extra hp or a full heal. The advancements that used to be there will only heal poison and slow, 25% of hp and some 25 more points of hp (better advancements will heal less; to avoid confusion, these advancements DO NOT increase maximum hp, only those that do it explicitly, like the Ogre's or Troll Warrior's advancement, maximum hp is increased by 2 and then you may choose if you want 10% more hp).
Extra stuff coded atm:
Shockwave - throws all enemies adjacent away and slows them and deals 10 impact damage to them (late advancement of Elvish Champion, Drake Warden, Troll Warrior)
Explosive Damage - hits all enemies adjacent to the target (can be obtained as an improvement to fireball and fire breath; Great Mage has it stronger)
Inferno - Deals the same fire damage than the regular damage of the attack to all enemies adjacent to the attacker, poisoning them as well (late advancement of Armageddon Drake)
Blizzard - Deals 1/4 of the regular damage to enemies adjacent to the target, slowing them (Ancient Lich, Necromancer)
Whirlwind - hits all enemies adjacent to the attacker (early advancement of Master at Arms), works with drain (been trying to figure out why doesn't it work, and then I realised a forgot to mark one variable as $variable; anyway the most complicated code yet)
Rally - all adjacent allies get 40% to all resists (Grand Marshal)
Fanaticism Aura - all adjacent dwarves gain the berserk weapon special for their melee attack in offence (Dwarvish Berserker)
Revelation - all all adjacent elves gain the marksman weapon special for their ranged attack (Elvish Sharpshooter)
Poison aura - all adjacent skeletons gain the poison weapon special for their attacks (Ghast; and I added ghast)
Aura of horror - all adjacent drakes gain the horror weapon special for their melee attack (Drake Flameheart)
Bloodlust - all adjacent orcs gain the charge weapon special for their melee attack (Orcish Warlord)
Greater Feeding - when this unit kills a living enemy, it gains 2 maximum HP and heals 8 HP (Ghast)
Last edited by Dugi on March 8th, 2012, 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by masterofshadows »

Well that sounds good! The bloodlust aura for orcs is a very good idea! So in fact each faction will have its own aura. About the damage reflection: you can give it to mages, but also to heavily armored units (like Royal Guard, Halberdier, Iron Mauler, Drake Warden, Draug, Orcish Warlord, that kind of units. Also, you could give the Shockwave special to Halberdier and Iron Mauler. The Drake Enforcer could have Charge for the Ram attack. Maybe it's a good idea to give some stalk abilities to Orcish Slayer? The level up system you suggested sounds very good to me, but it might be important to give a message (like the one in Ageless Era) to let players know how things work, to prevent your mailbox from being spammed with ten thousand times the same question. The idea of increasing the level with AMLA also is a good idea, for it, as you said, makes killing a very strong and upgraded unit worth the effort and the losses you will suffer for killing it, although it might be a good idea to set a level max at for example level 20. Else it would be possible to level up by only attacking an unit. Some units from LotI are nice to play with, but as you said you don't want to alter the recruit lists, it's better to let the factions be as they are.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

Good idea with that charge with ram attack of Drake Enforcer. I will probably add him also some shockwave.
Nightstalk for Orchish Slayers is fine too (in truth, I quite neglected Orcs, mostly used macros I made for humans; I had no idea what to add to them).
The idea to inform everyone about the era is a good idea, I was thinking about enclosing some .pdf with documentation, but many people don't know where it is. But if a message appears at the start, it would be kinda delaying to read it all, enraging all other players... but I guess that a brief message when a game starts, containing also an URL of some place where I would post more information could be fine.
Iron Maulers have the shockwave, I just forgot to write it. Good idea to give it to halberdiers.
I am not sure how would it be if the damage reflection was on warriors, the recoil damage is pretty freaking from most of them... So I think it should better be a rather for mages (possibly Mage of Light only). And to saurians, they have pretty much nothing now (in fact, they are just like nothing with HP and damage atm, dunno what caused it in 1.10), and saurians are supposed to be the annoying freaks and not really damaging units.
Good idea to limit the level added due to AMLA. I think 20 is still too much, however.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by masterofshadows »

Maybe lvl 20 is too high, indeed. Especially for the units with normal Leadership, they would overpower their allies. The damage of heavy warriors is (mostly) very high, so the damage reflection might be unneeded for them. Instead, giving it to units which have low damage (also for units that have a high dmg attack and a low dmg attack) may be more useful. About the Saurians: they are indeed pretty annoying. For them it might be a good idea to give them an ability like steadfast, that makes them dodge some damage, or you could just give them higher defenses.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

The leadership ability does not depend on level, there are in fact abilities 'leadership level 2', 'leadership level 3' etc, and traditionally a unit has the leadership of its level, but simply increasing the level won't alter the leadership - so that would not be a problem.
Good idea to give some steadfast-like ability to saurians - that would be a nice nuissance. I am also thinking about giving the saurian mages also a weapon special that steals exp.
Btw, orcish slayers could gain the nightstalk ability.
After writing that post above, I became very unlucky when coding, almost everything I tried did not work so I cannot be telling about some progress... I hope I will have more luck today.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by masterofshadows »

Well, good luck! The xp stealing ability could be very useful, especially when you want to kill an unit that is very close to lvl up. By the way, in LotI, chapter four, scenario Nemesis, Argan stands in the middle of the lava pool. Is this a bug? And if it's not, how am I supposed to kill him? I tried it with explosive damage, but that's not done for he heals 10 hp every round.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

Damn, it was a bug. I was copying and pasting and I forgot to fully edit what I was pasting (due to the uncompatibility of saves, I was unable to test it). It works now, run update add-ons

Regarding RPG AMLA Era, I have added the reflect ability (1/4 of damage, 1/2 of damage if further upgraded). Not too much progress :(
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by masterofshadows »

Ok. To which units have you added the reflect ability?
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

Paladin, Mage of Light, and Saurian Flanker.

Update: Finally made the summoning work. Ancient Liches and Necromancers can summon monsters around them, if they have taken the advancement. You can summon only L1 undead summons, for 150% of their recruit cost.
Mind Raid: 1/4 of damage inflicted will be sucked from the defender's exp and given to the attacker. If the exp is 0, nothing will be leeched. (Saurian Oracle and Saurian Soothsayer)
Bloodthirst: Whenever a unit with this ability kills an enemy, it is slowed, but it can move and attack again, as if it was at the beginning of the turn. (Goblin Impaler and Goblin Rouser)
Focused and Guided weapon specials: Chance to hit 80% and 90% respectively. (Elvish Sharpshooter and Huntsman)
Nova: Similar to whirlwind, but ranged (Elvish Sylph)
Greater Nova: Hits all enemies within the range of 2 hexes (Elvish Sylph) - now works (I had to help myself)
I have set up the item shop, but only armours can be bought at the moment (but the resistances are limited at 50%-80%, depends on the most expensive armour of the armours you have put on that unit, the one with 80% max resists is extremely expensive (200 gold). I will probably need some suggestions about item prices. It is really important for the balance and it is hard to decide - my suggestions are listed.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by masterofshadows »

The armours idea is very good, also the resistances are balanced... but do they also decrease resistance of i. e. Armageddon Drake with 100% fire resistance, when the armour max resistance is 60?
The spreading Fairie Fire from LotI is also useful (the 'plague' for elves). Maybe you could add it to the Shyde. Also, you could add a 'piercing' ability for the lance attacks of Grand Knight and Paladin, which deals 1/2 of the normal damage to the unit behind the attacked unit. Just some suggestions, but they may be useful.
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Re: RPG AMLA Era for 1.10

Post by Dugi »

Ooops, right, it decreases the fire resistance of drakes. I will have to remove the limit for that, it is the only armour increasing the fire resist anyway (except mystic armour, but that is too expensive). Also for cold because of the undead.
The piercing weapon special is a nice idea as well. With the plague, okay, although I wanted to remove it from LotI (or make it optional) because it was annoying - you killed an enemy and could not step at the place where he died, because a moveless useless unit stood there.

Also, I have almost fixed all the problems with an item-removing block. It is not too hard to do, but when you have also AMLA there, it won't work well (will ask you to pick an amla or advance to the same unit, if you pick amla, you lose all objects, and maybe also AMLAs picked before). The workaround is complicated, I still need to fix some clashes of the workaround with abilities, but removing weapons will be possible (also in LotI).

#EDIT: There was no way to make a workaround for that. If a unit has an ability by default, removing an abject would remove all the other objects, amla advancements and traits until it advances. I managed to prevent the option asking the player whether to advance or pick an AMLA from appearing, so it is perfect now.
You can have only one armour now, so the limits for maximum resistances are pretty high now.
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