Why don't we have a Troll Era?

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francophone
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by francophone »

I'm not opposed to a race faction. But I think trolls can't be it. Not correctly according with the default factions.
For a campaign, why not ?
The trolls are specific race. They are strong, slow, resistant, etc. They have few of equipment (some of they any). You can imagine trolls according to varied terrains. Maybe an +/- aquatic troll. But not a flying troll. And not a speed scout troll. So they aren't enough varied for an good faction, I think.
For example, I work on 2 race factions. But I will not say about that. Is not the good area for that.
Simply, you can imagine a race with varied ways. It is the case for one of my race faction. They can go to cold or fire way, or any (and a great unit is the two). Independently, they can fly or not. Many are strong; others speed. Etc. They are so varied.
Ito for my other race faction. It is not a good example, but I can give a near case, for simplify : You can imagine a mages faction. The mages can use differently their magic power. All types of attack. Resistances according with those for fire, cold or arcane. Some can have magic shell. Somme can increase their physical capacities, especially to fly or/and increase speed (therefore a mage scout). They can also regenerate, or heal the others. They can have special charm, especially enslavement, maybe stone, poison. One with teleport. Etc.


And I can use those examples for varied evolutions :
Imagine a ranged fighter who evolve to 3 lvl2. One simple evolution (ranged attack more powerful). Ito lvl3. An other become “steadfast” and more strong, and add “enslavement” at the ranged attack. Ito lvl3. The lvl1 and those 2 lvl2 then lvl3 are powerful in defense. The third lvl2 have 2 melee attack (the others have only one). He loose the “enslavement” in melee but add poison. He is better in offense and a mixed fighter... without lvl3. In resume : One lvl1, tree lvl2 and two lvl3.
With the same style, a powerful in ranged attack mage. Two lvl2 add a ranged attack with different “type”. Those two evolve to the same lvl3, who have 3 type of ranged attack. An other lvl2 add a melee attack (one for others). He is better in defense (mixed fighter, enslavement), and gain a point of speed. He is scout and haven't lvl3.
Those examples to say all lvl2 don't have to evolve. And a lvl1 can have more than two evolution, if many divergences (other type of attack, add a ranged attack at a melee fighter, add special weapon or ability...).
I imagine well the trolls with only two lvl1. Maybe a mage (with 2 or 3 lvl2 and 1 or 2 lvl3) and a whelp. The welp will evolve to spearman or rocklobber or classic troll. This one with two lvl3. And one of those have a lvl4 (or the two if the lvl4 add the advantages of the two lvl3).
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Lolinder
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Lolinder »

I see what you mean. Standard Wesnoth trolls couldn't fill all the roles, and wouldn't be diverse enough to be really interesting. You could only really have two recruitables with just them.

But what if you pushed Wesnoth canon out a bit? It seems to me that there hasn't been any decision made that trolls couldn't exist in forms that other fantasy worlds have. This could give you at least water troll whelps and forest troll whelps, and the associated lines of advancement. The problem is, we'd still lack a scout.

So, it seems that a completely pure Troll faction would be impossible. But I don't like the idea of having random units (bats, wolves, whatever) for a troll faction, it just doesn't seem like they could domesticate an animal, at least to the extent that they would let them out on their own. I wonder if a rider would be possible?
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tr0ll
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by tr0ll »

In the Swamplings add-on, boru builds a swamp goblin faction throughout a fun and compelling campaign. I'm not sure how well they would fare outside their home terrain against other factions however.
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Moribund
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Moribund »

I think Dixie brought up a really important point. You don't need conventional unit types to fill vital roles. How about having one melee slower to deal with heavy melee retal instead of having archers. And instead of mages or marksman, having a berserker (which would be especially powerful on a slowed unit). And, how about not having a scout at all.

I'll give you a sec to language your mind.




And instead simply balance the faction as a whole to compensate for the lack of village grabbing power. These specific ideas might make a fairly boring race, but they are just some ideas. I think a really really slow, meleecentric race could work. Something between Northerners and Dwarves, with its own unique feel.
AlaskanAvenger
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by AlaskanAvenger »

The Forgotten Kingdom has a troll faction of sorts that is fairly well done. It has a berserker, fire troll, whelp, runner (with 6 moves and very weak attack), and a pelter. It might not completely fit the idealistic view of trolls, but I think it works fairly well and would be a fun faction to play.
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Dixie
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Dixie »

An idea for a non-troll scout (because while allt he rest can be more or less adapted, a scout is a msut-have for mainline balance): it could be some kind of fire-brd-spirit. Their shamans have fire magic, don,t they? They might as well be able to summon fire spirits. Don't they do so in UtBS, anyway?
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francophone
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by francophone »

Dixie wrote:An idea for a non-troll scout (because while allt he rest can be more or less adapted, a scout is a msut-have for mainline balance): it could be some kind of fire-brd-spirit. Their shamans have fire magic, don,t they? They might as well be able to summon fire spirits. Don't they do so in UtBS, anyway?
Good idea !


A berzek troll, why not ?
We can have varied berzek units. We can imagine a unit with a berzek melee attack and a less powerful ranged attack. In one of my factions, I have a fast berzek unit (less fast than a scout), without lvl2. It can't evolve, only regenerate with default AMLA.
But with trolls, I think is a good idea that the berzek unit is still more slow and strong than other trolls. I suggest this unit could have a lvl3. It would be a particularly berzek unit. Maybe it is only lvl2 and 3 without lvl1: a lvl1 (welp ?) evolve to differently ways. One of they is the berzek way.

I imagine 3 types of trolls. All slow strong with regenerate and chaotic. But with a few of variety in movement, defense and maybe resistance. The trolls in the northern faction are cave or mountains trolls. They have good defense and 1 cost of movement in cave and mountains. They have generally 4 points of movement.
We can also have forest trolls. A little less strong (or less resistant ?), but with 5 movement. With good defense and only 1 cost of movement in forest. But less defense and more cost of movement on mountains (and cave ?).
Ditto for swamp trolls : mvt5, less strong than mountain trolls, good defense and 1 cost of movement on swamp or shallow water (2 on deep water).
If there is a pickman troll, I think is a forest troll, because it have and know staff and wood pick. Rocks lobber is logically a mountain troll, etc. Maybe swamp trolls have a cold mages line, and mountain trolls a fire mages line.
If they haven't scout unit, differently units can take the villages according about the terrain.
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Rozard
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Rozard »

Cant scouts be like, weak grown trolls?
Just becourse their weak growth they have developed mind to watch their surroundings (in fear to get beated)...
Like goblins in orcs army.

Or something...
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kossa
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by kossa »

The nature of trolls have changed during the years. Before middle age, they were of diferent nature and kind, depending of the geographic origin of the troll term. In some cases troll is related to natural beings modified by magic, like spiders, bears or any other creature. Only later the troll become the actual mythological creature refered in literacy. So you can have some kind of beast (troll-bear for example) to use in a role not existing for a troll. Do not forget they have enhanced capacities.
Also males and females have different roles. Males are the fisical force (hardware) and the females the magical force (software). If you wish to have more troll related creatures search for troll lore. You can have so many choices that the problem will be maintening the coerence of the era or faction.
An older (pre-human) era may help, or not, for the line you wish to implement.
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Reepurr
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Reepurr »

Yes, that's true, some myths *cough* norse *cough* describe trolls as mischievious tricksters who can appear and disappear at will. But these are Wesnoth trolls, not Norse trolls, not Neolithic trolls, but Wesnoth trolls.
Also males and females have different roles.
Are you sure that modified anythings actually have genders? :hmm:
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Destructinator
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Destructinator »

A troll era would be a great idea. We could have the sges, barbarians, clans, Civalized, ect. i think it is an awsum idea :hmm: soo many ideas
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Limabean
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Limabean »

hey conrad, if you're serious about this, here are some frankensteins I did a while ago. I know i'm not much of an artist, but I figured you might have a use for them. Good luck with your era :)
Attachments
A lvl 1 berserker
A lvl 1 berserker
wrecker.PNG (2.02 KiB) Viewed 3010 times
A lvl 1 archer style unit. Throws little rocks, so low damage and high number of attacks
A lvl 1 archer style unit. Throws little rocks, so low damage and high number of attacks
tosser.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 3010 times
lvl 2 tosser
lvl 2 tosser
thrower.png (2.61 KiB) Viewed 3010 times
a troll with a spear...
a troll with a spear...
spearman.png (4.1 KiB) Viewed 3010 times
lvl 1 scout, he stole some dwarf boots because he likes to run ;)
lvl 1 scout, he stole some dwarf boots because he likes to run ;)
runner.png (2.22 KiB) Viewed 3010 times
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Conrad
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Conrad »

There are a lot of ideas, but when it comes down to it we must decide weather or not the trolls are smarter or dumber? (remember that free saurians and other such factions are more intelligent than an average wild saurian.)
"Strength in numbers" is a common phrase.
But doesn't anyone remember?
Small amounts are more manageable.
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tr0ll
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by tr0ll »

just because they talk simple doesnt mean they stupid 8)
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Conrad
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Re: Why don't we have a Troll Era?

Post by Conrad »

I agree. (love the scout thing that stole dwarf boots.) It could be a tribal race? Have clan leaders and their own mystic thingymajiggers.
Possibly the trolls could deviate from cave? have some "Hill" and "Plains" trolls?
I just recieved an idea from a friend, for a troll scout we could use snakes, possible 4-2 peirce damage, with poison and 6mp...
(suggested by Jokkelis and Glenn.)
(Thanks Limabean your a good friend.) :D
I have some files now for you...
Troll Faction
-Snake
HP 20 Level 0 Exp. 8 Skirmisher 7MP Cost 8 Levels to:Boa or Cobra or Moccasin
Attacks: Bite- 4-2 poison pierce melee

Resists: Arcane 0% Blade-30% Cold 20% Fire -10% Impact 10% Peirce -20%

Terrain Def.
Castle 70%1MP Village 70%1MP
Flat 50%1MP Hills 60% 1MP
mountains 70%3MP Swamp 60%2MP
Deep water 0%-MP Shallow water 60% 2MP
Impassible 0% -MP Cave60%1MP Forest 70% 1MP
Mushroomgrove 30% 3MP


-Runt
HP 28 Level0 Exp. 12 4MP Cost 10 Levels to: Welp or Welp Rock Thrower
Attacks: Bite- 3-3 Blade melee PoopThrow- 3-3 impact ranged
Resists: Arcane -10% Blade 0% Cold -10% Fire -10% Impact 0% pierce 10%
Terrain Defence:
Castle50%1MP Village50%1MP Impassible0%-MP
Flat50% 1MP Hills40%2MP Forest40%2MP
Mountains40%3MP Swamp20%3MP Mushroom grove50%2MP
Deep water0%-MP Shallow water20%3MP Cave50%1MP
-Welp
Traditional Default unit…

-Welp Rock Thrower
HP 42 Level 1 Exp.24 MP4 cost 13 Levels to:
Attack: RockThrow- 5-3 Impact ranged Bite-4-2 Blade melee
Resists: Arcane 0% Blade 20% Cold 0% Fire 0% Impact 0% pierce 20%

Castle60%1MP Village50%1MP Impassible0%-MP
Flat30% 1MP Hills50%2MP Forest40%2MP
Mountains60%3MP Swamp20%3MP Mushroom grove40%2MP
Deep water0%-MP Shallow water20%2MP Cave50%1MP

-Troll scatter shot
HP 42 Level 2 Exp.24 cost 13 MP4 Levels to:Troll shotgun
Attack: Pebble shot- 2-10 pierce ranged Punch-7 -2 Impact melee
Resists: Arcane 0% Blade 20% Cold 0% Fire 0% Impact 0% pierce 20%

Castle60%1MP Village50%1MP Impassible0%-MP
Flat30% 1MP Hills50%2MP Forest40%2MP
Mountains60%3MP Swamp20%3MP Mushroom grove40%2MP
Deep water0%-MP Shallow water20%2MP Cave50%1MP
Last edited by Conrad on May 20th, 2011, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Strength in numbers" is a common phrase.
But doesn't anyone remember?
Small amounts are more manageable.
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