Wose Faction

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cyme3
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by cyme3 » July 11th, 2010, 3:05 am

I like the idea of this wose faction as well, but I'm not sure if the idea of a seasonal character is good since it would probably cause you to have too many different units. As for the armament, I think a solution would be to have the weapons made of the tree, such as a branch that is pointy like a spear and a branch that has lots of tough bark for a shield. In the description you could say that the tree has, with the help of elvish and wose shamans, molded itself as it grew.

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Re: Wose Faction

Post by cyme3 » July 11th, 2010, 3:35 am

Maybe like this?
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by iLeeT_PeeP » July 11th, 2010, 3:31 pm

I think the Cactose and Elder Cactose are awesome.
The roots are great I think they are a nice touch the way they are.
I think maybe removing that small flower from the Elder Cactose might make it look more "ELDER".
Just a thought keep up the good work... :eng:
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Lollipopz » July 12th, 2010, 11:18 am

Suggestion: Some sort of Wose-Lord that advances from normal Wose. Altough littlebit weaker than Elder Wose, it would have plague attck to create MORE small woses...
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by pauxlo » July 13th, 2010, 5:33 pm

Lollipopz wrote:Suggestion: Some sort of Wose-Lord that advances from normal Wose. Altough littlebit weaker than Elder Wose, it would have plague attck to create MORE small woses...
Huh ... you kill a (mostly humanoid/animal) unit and use this to fertilize the ground to get a new wose sapling? So, this should be limited to certain terrain (for example plain, dirt, forest, but not snow/ice, sand/desert (=> or get a cactose sapling here?), road, cave, water), and maybe take a turn or so for the sapling to grow.

What I would imagine more from a wose lord would be leadership.

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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Tivinu » July 20th, 2010, 9:28 am

Well I've tried to read all posts so far, so bear with me if I'm stepping on peoples toes.

Just for names you can allways refrences diffrent fantasies, for example drop the name steel wose (from page 2 i 'think') and go with something like Ironoak (which i think is from DnD/WH F, or heck even both.)

Sickly wose could be fungal? the image seems to suggest it has a fungus nature (which seems more plantlike to me personally that being sick (yes im aware plants can be sickly just fungal seems more... planty?).)

<3 the Cactose though my god its haunting, its probably the open mouth with wide staring yellow eyes :shock:
'maby' the eldar one should have a diffrent stance to help differentiate a wee bit more.

Now onto the obvious: atributes & attacks!
Thorns, pierce, could be ranged (guess to represent either being shot out, or the vines lashing out - speaking of which)
Vines, impact? see elf shaman i guess....
Regen goes nicely with plants, healing i guess could, call it spore cloud or such, actually don't spore could might be more useful later, perhaps nourish for a healing move...
photosynthesis? unit gains a regen during the day?

crazy idea here, though I oddly like it. Why not give the woses a spore/sycamore (important its a type of 'seed' (techinally spore isnt a seed but shusss) that can 'fly') which have the ability 'Settle/Take Root'
Settle/Take Root - When this unit captures (or maby lands on) a town, it turns into a ........ (revelant unit based on what seed it was, e.g. spore goes to some fungal plant, sycamore goes to wose shrub/sapling.
Would give the wose team some early faster units that then 'become' part of their normal forces

tbh i think Maramros covered most of the units 'better' so I'd take his cents over my penny (english, sorry)

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Re: Wose Faction

Post by thespaceinvader » July 20th, 2010, 10:18 am

pauxlo wrote:
Lollipopz wrote:Suggestion: Some sort of Wose-Lord that advances from normal Wose. Altough littlebit weaker than Elder Wose, it would have plague attck to create MORE small woses...
Huh ... you kill a (mostly humanoid/animal) unit and use this to fertilize the ground to get a new wose sapling? So, this should be limited to certain terrain (for example plain, dirt, forest, but not snow/ice, sand/desert (=> or get a cactose sapling here?), road, cave, water), and maybe take a turn or so for the sapling to grow.

What I would imagine more from a wose lord would be leadership.
I actually think this is a cool idea - Strangler figs are an awesome thing. HOwever as a lord? No. Maybe a sneaky, assassin-type unit. It would throw and attack in melee with strangling epiphytes/vines, and if it made the kill, they'd take root into a new level 0 version.

A wose leadership special that would be cool would be that, if it spent a turn unmoving adjacent to a forest hex, it could generate a wose sapling there for free.
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Phyreprooph » July 21st, 2010, 2:15 pm

Ok I've been away for a while as you've probably noticed. And wow...I've been away a while.

I just had a quick skim through all the posts and I'm going to try my best to answer all your questions as best I can. =D

Maramros:
It's sorta only in the planning stage right now, I do have a few little "backyard" tests that I've done with crappy little changes of code and stuff from the original woses and so far it's looking kinda crap cause none of them have attacking animations and what not. Right now my main goal is together a unit list or unit tree that shows exactly what levels from what and what you can buy...blah blah blah.

I like a lot of your ideas and they are really helpful as ideas for units. Thanks. I can work from them. =D

1000hp:
I have no idea what the heck I'm gonna do with this at all. It's just sorta cool i guess and I see alotta potential in it. It could go somewhere...maybe. And if it doesn't I don't really care. I have better things to do in life like eating and drinking.

cyme3:
As far as giving woses weapons. I've experimented and thought about it, but it looks pretty silly. Even if i was going to give them pointy arms or something I just don't think it would look right. I just don't see weapon-like features working at all.

iLeeT_PeeP:
Thanks. =D The Cactose wasn't mine though, I just made the Elder. =D

Lollipopz/pauxlo/thespaceinvader:
Turning people into trees? It's kinda strange. It's almost like making the woses into zombies and sending them on their merry way. Maybe what you have is like what you said, they seed thier prey and then wait a turn but how about when they're growing for that turn they can't move or attack but they can get attacked and destroyed before they mature. =\ But Might be too complicated. =\

Tivinu:
The steel wose was killed with a lance a while ago.
Sickly wose I'm still a bit ify about. If anyone else can think of anything else for a long ranged unit feel free to comment.
Are all these attributes for a specific wose? I was reading it as random ideas so I'll answer them as reandom ideas. Thorns are pretty straight forward and vines are also pretty obvious. Also woses already have regenerate so I'm still confused at that entire five lines of your post. =\
Spores seem like a very complicated feet. I have no idea how that would work in the actual game considering it is only a grid system game and keep in mind it isn't Age of Empires, we're not trying to build a base. or whatever. I understand what your saying and it's would be cool, but i don't think it would work with the system.
Don't say sorry, english people are awesome. =D

Everyone:
And that is the end of my post =D Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and be more frequent with my posts next time rather than going on holiday for a while and talking to people about rubbish on facebook.
As far as units go in the faction we already have a definate yes for the original wose, DUH! And a definate yes for the Cactose, unless anyone thinks otherwise speak now or forever hold your peace. All we need for the Cactose are more animations for the Elder, maybe a new name for the elder and posibly another level above the elder.
The sickly wose is still uncertain as it's kinda wierd. It's just sort of a filler for an archer space. Anyone with votes for that please vote.
Also there's the scout wose which i posted a while ago that personally I like but would like to hear what everyone else thinks and the shrub which is an alternate level 0 that would evolve into womething other than the normal wose, sorta like a goblin spearman, pretty crap and cheap piece of crap. Votes,Votes,Votes.
I'd like to think of the:
Wose as a fighter.
Sickly as an archer.
Cactose as kinda balanced.
Scout as a scout.
Shrub as a Level 0.
And I'd really like to hear ideas for:
A more defensive shell looking wose that has higher defense but lower attack to the normal wose.
A magic using wose. Whether it be arcane, fire, lightning, ice, or poo. Lets get some ideas around.
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Phyreprooph
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Phyreprooph » July 21st, 2010, 2:23 pm

Here's a Unit tree: {Theser are locked in} The rest you can cat fight about as much as you'd like. =D

Fighter: { Wose - Elder Wose - Ancient Wose} - OR - Add seasons If you wish rather than choosing elder but still having elder as an option?

Archer: Sickly - Sick -Abomination

Balanced: {Cactose - Elder Cactose} - A Bigger One?

Scout: Scout - Better Scout

/Another Wose that isn't the normal Wose.
Level 0: Shrub <
\An alternate option Wose that isn't the normal Wose.

Magic: Magic - Mabye two level 2's - and two level 3's ?

Guardian: Guardian - bigger guardian - even bigger guardian
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by thespaceinvader » July 21st, 2010, 2:48 pm

Don't forget the Wose Sapling from tRoW. It's a good unit, and a wose faction shoudln't be without it.
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Dixie » July 21st, 2010, 3:16 pm

I think you had mentionned them earlier, but I think some Wose shaman of some sort exists somewhere, you should consider including them.

I still stand by my previous comment: I don't like your sickly wose, a mushroom one would look so much better, and could make great use of mushroom grove terrains! Maybe your first sprite attempt was not the greatest of success, but I think this shouldn't be the kind of thing that stops you from including something awesome. It would make a great chaotic unit to help old back enemies at night. Also, I hardly see it as the faction's archer, I would've rather compared him to the Northies' Assassin: a village clearer of sorts, good to take dwarves away from hills (although the shaman & such will do a good job of it too).

So I think you should think of a different archer. I already suggested an apple-throwing appletree or something like that. Or it could be your shrub with some berries or razor leaf or something, if you are gonna integrate the Wose Sapling as the faction's Lv0 (I like your shrub :) )

As far as tanks go, I think the main wose is already pretty much of a tank. Sure, it also has decent damage, but it is slow and has great resists already... That said, I'm not sure I would integrate a better fighter: I think the lack of quicker fighter with more strikes/more reliable damage is a great flavour element of your faction.
Tivinu wrote:crazy idea here, though I oddly like it. Why not give the woses a spore/sycamore (important its a type of 'seed' (techinally spore isnt a seed but shusss) that can 'fly') which have the ability 'Settle/Take Root'
Settle/Take Root - When this unit captures (or maby lands on) a town, it turns into a ........ (revelant unit based on what seed it was, e.g. spore goes to some fungal plant, sycamore goes to wose shrub/sapling.
Would give the wose team some early faster units that then 'become' part of their normal forces
I think that is a pretty good idea, and pretty doable at that. It would require testing so it isn't way overpowered, though. Also, while I generally like your "scout" sprite, I can't shake the feeling that it's weird for a tree to be quick and have about 8 moves. Maybe you could put your scout to some other use, like an alternate Lv2 to the normal wose, which would have... some different properties :? Or as a Lv1 Wose Shaman, depending on what you find as far as Wose shamans go (I think there were some in The Sojournings of Grog, check it out).

Other stuff:
You most probably need some unit with Slow, it greatly fits the theme, although maybe not at Lv1 since the woses already have great resistances. But a Lv2 with slow would be pretty nice. Somewhere along the mage line, I guess (in fact, I think the Wose shaman already has a slow attack. To be confirmed)

I think you should aim for an above-average priced faction (like, the minimum being around 15gold and the maximum could go around 22-24 gold), with medium felxibility in its recruit (7 recruit options). Rather defensive than aggressive (high resists, little mobility).

You lack a unit for water control, so you either need a water unit or a good flyer.

About mages: while I know they aren,t exactly -trees-, you could maybe use Invasion from the Unknown's Sprites unit tree (not sure about the Lv1's name anymore) which includes a Lv2, and 2 Lv3s, a Dryad and a... Nymph? Not sure anymore. Anyway, they are mage-like, fit the forest-fae theme and use fire attacks.

And last but not least: here are the carnivorous plant graphics I told you about previously. I'm not sure what role they could fill (maybe a unit with drain on top of regen? Or Feeding, or some other such ability?), but they look nice and would most certainly fit:
plant.png
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Deusite » July 21st, 2010, 8:17 pm

There's a Wose Shaman wired into Delfador's Memoirs.
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by thespaceinvader » July 21st, 2010, 8:20 pm

Which reminds me. I really, REALLY need to perk that guy up a bit.
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by Phyreprooph » July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am

Yeh I like the carnivorous plant and i understand what you mean about the scout too. I agree with the mushroom idea also i think if someone was able to pull it off it could look pretty cool and definitely better than the sick wose. You could even give it a more creative name. =]
I know about the sapling and the shaman but personally i think having the sapling and the original wose seems pointless. You may aswell just buy the wose rather than buying the sapling and then levelling it up. It seems stupid to me but you know, it's just me. The shaman on the other hand is definitely usable but it looks like it needs some refining. Looks very blurry compared to the original wose.
As far as a ranged unit goes, that is purely ranged, it seems almost stupid to throw leaves at someone or berries if you wish. Thorns seems like the only reasonable option but then again they seems quite fragile and small to do much damage. =\ Again only my opinion. The sick wose idea like i said was pretty far-fetched and was sort of just there as a filler. There are't many natural archers in real life but natural projectiles only go so far. Rocks, thorns, vines, leaves, berries, sticks, sludge, fire? There are a few most of which are pretty stupid to give a tree and seem again kinda lame. The archer seems to be a large issue and needs more attention. The faction can't live without an archer cause other wise they'll get murdered.
I have thought about a water-based wose before but i forgot about it in my last posts. As an idea it could be like a seaweed monster or a lilly pad like creature? =\ Just a thought.
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Re: Wose Faction

Post by thespaceinvader » July 22nd, 2010, 11:03 am

Don't underestimate the value of a: cheap units and b: upkeep-less units.
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