The knights of arthur

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DanielF
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by DanielF »

Aura wrote:Well, use the mainline Loyalist graphics as placeholders.
I was planning on using some of the mainline images already but thanks anyways
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DanielF
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by DanielF »

i suppose this is controversial but there will be two types of pierce and lances will have first-strike.
one type of pierce, a weaker pierce, would not have a bonus against armoured cavalry. the other one, a stronger pierce, would get the usuall bonus.
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Peter the Great
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Peter the Great »

That doesn't make much sense, even weak spears could easily kill a charging horse (maybe not the man but easily the horse)
Latin:LVDVMAMISI (pronounced Loo-dum amee-C)
French: J'ai perdu le jeu.
English: I lost the game.
Mabuse
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Mabuse »

i guess you have no real imagination what is needed to stop a charging horse ;)

just a peasant with an old spear wont stop medival charging cavlary.
and its also not, well then we get "longer spears". in the end its about formation and discipline which was able to hold off cavalry with pikes/lances.

if spears alone would have been in any way supperior to cavalry then cavalry would have never played the deciding role in medival battles.


so in short for me it kinda makes sense, to separate "piercing" weapons a bit more.
"civilian/hunting/primitive"-weapons and the "battle"-weapons


EDIT:
however, for the sake of being compatible with all the other wesnoth stuff i would simply use the civilian spears with lower damage, OR (maybe better) make ARHTURS armored horses a bit more resistant (or better less vulnerable) to pierce, and give the LANCES a weaponspecial that gives some bonus damage versus them

(that is if you assume that the infantry in wesnoth doesnt use formations or militry spears ;) - in my wesnoth universe the infantry is using formations and military weapons :))
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DanielF
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by DanielF »

Mabuse wrote: EDIT:
however, for the sake of being compatible with all the other wesnoth stuff i would simply use the civilian spears with lower damage, OR (maybe better) make ARHTURS armored horses a bit more resistant (or better less vulnerable) to pierce, and give the LANCES a weaponspecial that gives some bonus damage versus them

(that is if you assume that the infantry in wesnoth doesnt use formations or militry spears ;) - in my wesnoth universe the infantry is using formations and military weapons :))
well, for compatibility 'strong' pierce could be simply 'pierce', making that resist compatible and weak 0% bonus against normal units.
there really is a designer of the universe.

go python!:)
DanielF
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by DanielF »

Peter the Great wrote:That doesn't make much sense, even weak spears could easily kill a charging horse (maybe not the man but easily the horse)
well, a lance is easily as long as a spear. i mean, a lance is at least 2 times as long as a sword, knife, mace, etc. a spear has first strike, when a spearman attacks any unit, he is garanteed the first hit. period.
there really is a designer of the universe.

go python!:)
DanielF
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by DanielF »

Mabuse wrote: give the LANCES a weaponspecial that gives some bonus damage versus them
i thought about something like that, 'antihorselance', but do YOU have an idea on how to implement it?
i don't.
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Peter the Great
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Peter the Great »

I guess you don't quite understand. I understand that in the real world spear units would melt away to cavalry due to being badly trained, but if they were able to stand their ground the spear would do just as much damage to a horse as a lance. After all, the horses aren't armored enough to deflect a spear.

Remember: This is all assuming the spearman gets a good attack in, so maybe instead of having to deal with different pierces have an ability like "terrifying charge" which gives the knight better defense when charging?
Latin:LVDVMAMISI (pronounced Loo-dum amee-C)
French: J'ai perdu le jeu.
English: I lost the game.
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Major
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Major »

Mythbusters tested firing a piece of paper through a tree. They succeeded. Now if a peasant with a sharpened branch about 2m long were to place his branch butt on the ground at a 45 degree angle and an armoured horse charged into it, the branch would tear through the toughest armour said horse would be able to wear ,without losing the ability to charge, like rice paper. Spears are insanely powerful against cavalry, BUT the sight of three tons of flesh bone and steel heading towards you at 50 km/h is enough to make most people run away or crap their pants, and knights used to use even bigger lances to counter the peasants branch/spear/lance/pike, the problem being that a knights lance was one use only due to the fact that, to enable the knight to keep it steady on a charging horse, it was made of the lightest wood availible. Relying on sheer momentum to drive it through their enemies. :shock:
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Mabuse
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Mabuse »

DanielF wrote:
Mabuse wrote: give the LANCES a weaponspecial that gives some bonus damage versus them
i thought about something like that, 'antihorselance', but do YOU have an idea on how to implement it?
i don't.
so this special wil deal 1.2 times the damage to opponents.
of course we dont wanna deal it to all opponents, so we must use a opponent filter within


possible solutions:

solution 1.
filter for unit types.
this solution has the advantage that you only affect the unit types you want.
disadvanatge: it wont affect any other units, so its compatiblity with other eras is lmited.

Code: Select all

#define WEAPON_SPECIAL_LANCE
    [damage]
        id=lance
        name= _ "lance"
        description= _ "Lance:
When used offensively, this attack deals more damage to cavalry targets."
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense

[filter_opponent]
type=a,b,c,d,e,f,....
[/filter_opponent]

    [/damage]
#enddef

solution 2:

filter for units with pierce resistance, if there is a pierce resistance higher than 100. the special is active. so it will affect all units with weak pierce resistances even stronger.
disadvantages: it will also affect non-cavalry units, will only affect units with a pierce-weakness, will only affect units with full 10% steps on pierce resistance
advantages: is compatible with all eras

Code: Select all

#define WEAPON_SPECIAL_LANCE
    [damage]
        id=lance
        name= _ "lance"
        description= _ "Lance:
When used offensively, this attack deals more damage to cavalry targets."
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="110"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="120"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="130"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="140"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="150"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="160"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="170"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="180"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="190"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
    [damage]
        id=lance
        multiply=1.2
        apply_to=self
        active_on=offense
[filter_opponent]
[filter_wml]
pierce="200"
[/filter_wml]
[/filter_opponent]
    [/damage]
#enddef

note: havent tested these
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Mabuse »

DanielF wrote:
Peter the Great wrote:That doesn't make much sense, even weak spears could easily kill a charging horse (maybe not the man but easily the horse)
well, a lance is easily as long as a spear. i mean, a lance is at least 2 times as long as a sword, knife, mace, etc. a spear has first strike, when a spearman attacks any unit, he is garanteed the first hit. period.
a lance is longer than a spear.

there are following terms:


spear: a more or less short polearm, about up to 2m long, or shorter, can be thrown
lance: used exclusively from from horseback, long polearm, about 3 to 5 meters
pike (or kissem or whatever): long infantry polearm

of course there are lance-variants that may be also used by infantry, but thats not the point.
the point is, that a "civilian/hunting" spear is surely not as effective (in military value) against cavalry then a pike for example


EDIT:
------

however, after thinking and thinking, i guess you should simply assume that all MILITARY units in the wesnoth-universe use LONG POLEARMS, i would rather give the "weak spears" in your era a penalty against "pierce-weak" targets, to keep compatibility with other eras. the knights or spear units in other eras are surely thought to be effective versus cavalry also, so making "your" cavalry "extra effective" doesnt fit well.

so either give your weak spears a penalty which makes them less effective (multiply damage by 0.9), or simply abandon the idea
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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Peter the Great
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Peter the Great »

Major wrote:Mythbusters tested firing a piece of paper through a tree. They succeeded.
[OT]
Actually, the myth was that in a hurricane a piece of straw could go through a palm tree. They failed and ended up using piano wire which sliced clean through it and damaged the wall behind it.
[/OT]

I don't see what's wrong with my idea. Why not just make it so that spearmen would be afraid of the horseman and runs instead of attacks (misses).
Latin:LVDVMAMISI (pronounced Loo-dum amee-C)
French: J'ai perdu le jeu.
English: I lost the game.
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Major
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Major »

I've never seen that one but the myth they tested was a paper plane being thrown at a tree and going one foot deep.
You could have an "Intimidate" special ability that is detrimental to the enemy when s/he is of a lower level to simulate them crapping their pants and running away. :lol2:
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DanielF
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by DanielF »

OK. did it occur that i wasn't saying that a polearm would have weak pierce? I was mainly talking about arrows.
there really is a designer of the universe.

go python!:)
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Comedian
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Re: The knights of arthur

Post by Comedian »

King Arthur rarely used his Lance or if you want to call it his polearm.

He wielded his Longsword, Excalibur. This sword has to do some nice dmg and Arthur himself should be powerful. One sad sad thing in Wesnoth is that 95% of the heroes are very weak. They are mostly lvl 2 or lvl 3 units, please correct me if I am wrong, and you have to chill to attack with the deadly strike if you want to use them wisely. Yes, of cours your not supost to run out with your leader in battle crying to be slayed. But as for King Arthur he is the tipical front-line hero who does not stand in his castle watching the battle recruiting units. He is used! So please make him a little bit more powerful than normal heroes in the faction.

All my best,

Comedian
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