Archaic Era (Active for BfW 1.13, Maintenance for BfW 1.12)

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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby IPS » March 30th, 2010, 1:53 pm

Ehm.... Khthons are to much upbalanced.

Yak haves to many hp for low atack. 47 hp is very high and 6 MP...
So I perfier them do 10-2 and have an hp like 41 or 42 and them continues having 6 MP. Them can continuing a price of 16 with my changes ;)

The Rams are so overpowered, 9-2 charge impact and 30 hp and 6 MP for only 14 of gold. You need to remmind a Ram can do 18-2 to a Dark adept and the dark adept will do not counter atack. Charge hability increases the price of the units, because you can kill an objetive in a hit and with more percent to dont take any dammage point.

Fallen haves to low hp to cost 13. 9-2 is an ok atack, but 16 hp is really poor. The fallens should have a hp of 26 to get a price of 13. And increase their xp points of 13 to 20. 50% more hp for +50% xp requirement.

Artic wolf is so unpowered! 26 hp and 5-3 mele and a price of 15. I perfier a Artic Wolf with 29 or 30 hp for 16 coins ;)


Other very important thing, them no have good ranged.
25 of gold for a 6-2 ranged slowing unit?? and it have 66 hp, so this unit is so upbalanced. Very very high hp and regen for poor atack (this unit will do not kill itself NEVER!)

Change their dammage to 8-2 ranged slowing, and change their hp of 66 to 52 (more than the average hp of the level 2 units) and decrease their movement of 8 to 6 AND add them a weak mele, a ulfseker can kill it without taking a dammage point for many less gold, A Staff of 6-1 impact mele??.

With these changes this unit should cost 26 ;)


And try to add other ranged unit. Only 1 ranged unit is to low. Ranged Fallen?? Ranged Fallen can convert in Khthon mage or in a Khthon archer.

Khthon unit should decrease their hp and increase a bit their offensive ;)
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 31st, 2010, 8:06 am

IPS wrote:Ehm.... Khthons are to much upbalanced.

I think everyone knows that. The problem is, that we need at first more units for the two splitted factions 'phantom' and 'spirits' (btw., @doofus-1: what's now about the phantom mage?)

Yak haves to many hp for low atack. 47 hp is very high and 6 MP...
So I perfier them do 10-2 and have an hp like 41 or 42 and them continues having 6 MP. Them can continuing a price of 16 with my changes ;)

The Rams are so overpowered, 9-2 charge impact and 30 hp and 6 MP for only 14 of gold. You need to remmind a Ram can do 18-2 to a Dark adept and the dark adept will do not counter atack. Charge hability increases the price of the units, because you can kill an objetive in a hit and with more percent to dont take any dammage point.

You forgot the real strongest one: the horse: 10 gold for a fast, steadfasty, good-damage-having unit but anyway the problem now is the one descripted above.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby IPS » March 31st, 2010, 10:55 am

In ageless era, it haves 24 hp like and 10-2 impact and cost 15 or 16.

But, the hp is really lower. The speed is in 8 MP if I'm right. The scouting units shouldn't be a main unit, the penalty of them I think is the lower hp.

But with 32 hp and 8-2 impact should cost the same.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 31st, 2010, 12:48 pm

IPS wrote:Artic wolf is so unpowered!
Arctic wolf is a holdover from Bad Moon Rising, where it has an advantage with good snow movement. Some things are not well organized, I'm working on it (Seth should also not be in Phantoms, it is a campaign unit). The Timber wolf is the one to use.
IPS wrote:The Rams are so overpowered, ... the dark adept will do not counter atack.
Ulfserkers can also squash Dark Adepts, I don't think that's a problem. Rams die fairly easily.
IPS wrote:Other very important thing, them no have good ranged.
25 of gold for a 6-2 ranged slowing unit?? and it have 66 hp, so this unit is so upbalanced. Very very high hp and regen for poor atack (this unit will do not kill itself NEVER!)
Almost all have the Vector attack. It may not be balanced, but it is not as if they do not have a ranged attack. The fallen was an attempt to even that out. The theme of the level 1 units is possessed large animals. I guess there could be spitting llamas or pooping turkeys, but I couldn't really think of any ranged attack that wasn't silly.
25 gold is just a default for level 2 units, I have not even considered that part yet since they are not usually recruited.
I was not aware that a unit had to be able to kill itself, and believe it should not matter as long as someone else in the faction can.

fog_of_gold wrote:The problem is, that we need at first more units for the two splitted factions 'phantom' and 'spirits' (btw., @doofus-1: what's now about the phantom mage?)
I'm trying to finish the "Spirits" first. I am renaming them "Despair". That may be a stupid name, but it is not as generic as "spirits". For them I am working to add a "widow" line. It will be a mage-type. Then I think they are done.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 31st, 2010, 1:52 pm

doofus-01 wrote:[...]I'm trying to finish the "Spirits" first. I am renaming them "Despair". That may be a stupid name,

No, quite not. I really like the idea.

[...]For them I am working to add a "widow" line. It will be a mage-type. Then I think they are done.

They need a tank being also active at day. It could be a fog-like unit being very big, having much hitpoints and ghost-like resistences. Maybe they can hide units being near them.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 31st, 2010, 3:47 pm

fog_of_gold wrote:They need a tank being also active at day. It could be a fog-like unit being very big, having much hitpoints and ghost-like resistences. Maybe they can hide units being near them.
I was wondering what special to give the widow, and I think that may be it. During the night it is a deathly pale woman in a mourning veil that has a good attack but cannot take much damage. During the day it is a cloud that has no good attack, but can take a lot of damage. The HP conversion (cloud HP - > woman HP) would be done by %. Maybe the cloud can have anti-illumination, maybe not.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 31st, 2010, 6:39 pm

Yes, we can do that but it's weird that a widow can form into a cloud. If I can really imagine having a unit changing to a cloud, it would be a vampire but something else? Anyway, I think it would get better to make two units. About the special, she could get different attacks having all magic but one with much damage, one with slow and one with poison to get more cursing-like. But not every unit needs a special. She can just get a fast mage, maybe even a ghost mage. Two these-like widows against each other would get an interesting fight.

@Edit|anti_illuminate:
Since all these units are chaotic it would get too strong. Maybe you can make a half anti-illuminate giving +12.5%.
----
I just noticed you've got a 'shadow' this unit is already in mainline so please change the name.

Edit:
It is quite very easy to look, if your unit is a vapor or not. Better than that you did would be, to really change vapor to the wanted unit +advance_to +zoc and just adding per [object] an invisible ability which will make some events like advance and attacker/defender hits be fired. Then, there won't be any other possibilities.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » April 2nd, 2010, 7:35 pm

fog_of_gold wrote:It is quite very easy to look, if your unit is a vapor or not.
How so? This wouldn't have to do with the help screen would it? Because I think that is an engine bug. It sometimes, but not always, throws away the hide_help attribute. When it works, I don't see a problem.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » April 2nd, 2010, 10:13 pm

Take a look at the experience points: If it's a vapor, they'll turn purple. And yes, also with the help screen.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » April 4th, 2010, 2:05 pm

0.9.12 just went to the server. A few new units were added to Despair faction. Spirit Dove of Phantoms was nerfed. Phantom Vapors were adjusted.

fog_of_gold wrote:Take a look at the experience points: If it's a vapor, they'll turn purple. And yes, also with the help screen.
The no-advancement aspect was intentional, I thought there should be some way to distinguish them as long as it was not too obvious. But now I have removed it. I think it will be difficult to remember who is real and who is vapor, it would be nice if image overlays could be specified to show only for a single side.

I think the Despair are now finished, and looking at the Phantoms again, I think they are mostly finished as well. Some stats will need adjusting, maybe an advancement branch or two will be added, but the basic line-up is there. Back to Khthon...
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.11 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » April 4th, 2010, 7:54 pm

doofus-01 wrote:The no-advancement aspect was intentional

I thought it. Can't you do something like this?:
Code: Select all
[event]
        name=advance
        first_time_only=no
        [filter]
                #filters for the unit
        [/filter]
        {VARIABLE unit.advance_to null}
        [unstore_unit]
               variable=unit
       [/unstore_unit]
[/event]


Back to Khthon...

OK. Much to say. At first, like IPS already said, there are quite enough units being too strong. Set Yak's hitpoints to 40 and decrease the attack a little bit. Increase horse's costs. The punishment for vector should be increased to 50% since you can use nearly dead unit if there aren't other enemies which makes you have no loss because you won't be killed by this unit.

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Dullohan --> Slayer is really big RIPLIB.

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The widow is too weak. Yes, she can advance very fast but level two is nearly as strong as normal mages the only different is having two better melee strikes and doubled hitpoints. I'd suggest to increase the widow's magical attack by 1 and the two level 2s by 2.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.12 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby IPS » April 5th, 2010, 12:32 am

Ram can cost 16 (observe better the horseman, it haves 9-2 mele charge too and 38 hp and 8 MP and calvary adventages/unventages and cost 23). If horseman shouldn't have this hability him should cost like 16? Less than a calvaryman because he haves less resistances than the calvaryman from loyalist.

You can think in a lv1 fallen with a bow or something (with no mele maybe) and when he reach the lv2 can convert in Kthon archer or in a Kthon Mage.

Kthons dont have anything for water, this can make little troubles in water villages controling. Maybe you can make a air unit with ranged for an example "Rock Thorow" from a bird what catchs the rocks of the earths and after it thorows it to the earth enemies (but this should have only a strike) or maybe you can make a unit what is good in earth/water with ranged ;)

I dont have any more ideas at the moments :(
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.12 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » April 5th, 2010, 8:09 am

IPS wrote:Kthons dont have anything for water, this can make little troubles in water villages controling. Maybe you can make a air unit with ranged for an example "Rock Thorow" from a bird what catchs the rocks of the earths and after it thorows it to the earth enemies (but this should have only a strike) or maybe you can make a unit what is good in earth/water with ranged ;)

Are you talking about throwing? -A bird, which carries and throws stones being bigger than the bird? -No, just not. A normal dove would be enough. I think, it should be fast and cheap doing much damage, just like the bats.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.12 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » April 5th, 2010, 8:37 pm

0.9.12 was short-lived... 0.9.13 just went to the server.
IPS wrote:Ram can cost 16 (observe better the horseman, it haves 9-2 mele charge too and 38 hp and 8 MP and calvary adventages/unventages and cost 23). If horseman shouldn't have this hability him should cost like 16? Less than a calvaryman because he haves less resistances than the calvaryman from loyalist.
Well, maybe. But I don't want to make unit-by-unit comparisons like that. The ram has a high attack, but dies so easily.
IPS wrote:You can think in a lv1 fallen with a bow or something (with no mele maybe) and when he reach the lv2 can convert in Kthon archer or in a Kthon Mage.
I've decided not to do the snake people. They may or may not be in Ageless Era, but I am abandoning them in this era.
IPS wrote:Kthons dont have anything for water, this can make little troubles in water villages controling.
Now they do: Turtles. They are slow on land, fast(er) in water. They have a shell they can retreat into via a right-click menu. In the shell, they cannot do anything, but they have very high resistances. The AI does not know about this, so for now I make it hide in its shell whenever there are too many enemy units adjacent to it.
fog_of_gold wrote:A normal dove would be enough. I think, it should be fast and cheap doing much damage, just like the bats
Maybe, but I think I'll just try to adjust the horse first. That would be easier.

Thanks.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.13 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby adm » April 10th, 2010, 3:54 pm

A turtle with only 30% defense in water ? that's not very turtle like.

Personally i don't think that the horse is too strong. i would rather say it's too weak. there are other units that are overpowered.
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