Archaic Era (Active for BfW 1.13, Maintenance for BfW 1.12)

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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.5 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » February 2nd, 2010, 2:23 pm

fog_of_gold wrote:If you tranzform units with 'vector' to your side and ther's a (now) enemy unit near, they'll be able to attack.
Oh, thanks. Should be fixed now, I just sent an update. The only change is the khthon special attack. Basically, the attacker always gets hurt, but sometimes they turn the defender into khthon. The penalty damage and the chance to hit will probably be adjusted.

This is the colour-shift of the turned units. Has to be enough to distinguish them from the regular units, but not so much as to make them look vandalized.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.5 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » February 2nd, 2010, 6:20 pm

Bug: If you tranzorm a unit wile attacking ad you should die, you won't die (see savegame below)

Balancing:
The Horse is really to strong. It's got a decent attack, a decent move range and a decent defence. here should be at least twince costs(20 gold). The Nightmare doesn't fit, becuase it's a level two unit. I don't know, who got the idea of making recruitable level two units, but that just doesn't fit into the game mechines and -styles. It's also unbalanced and make lots of random. I'd suggest to allow horses to level up into Nightmares

Suggestions:
-Because vectored unit are Khthons, too, they should also have 'vector' attack.
-Vector should subtract about 35%/level(enemy) of the current hitpoints. -Now You'll like more to use nearly-dead-units to do this.
-Upload your era into the server 1.6 and change all add-ons --> campaigns in:
_main.cfg
eras/Archaic_Era.cfg
units/*_race.cfg

because it's annoying to allways debug and I think, if you do so, we'll have more helper.

-Include all the other factions of the Default era, too and later, we should make a 'era of archaic heroes'.

-Give the vectors a little bit more blue (better) or yellow (worser) so you don't think, they are poisoned.

Edit:
Bug: You are able to tranzform leaders. Don't allow this against leader (I don't know, if it's possible, but the best would be, to make the whole attack disable against leader)

Suggestion:
-Reinclude the fallen and allow them to level to their Mages. Of course, you shouldn't forget to include the vector attack.

Edit:
Sugestion: remove the minus from the damage
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.5 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » February 8th, 2010, 3:18 pm

0.9.6 just went to the (1.8) server. Self-inflicted damage from Vector attack is now a fraction of hitpoints.
fog_of_gold wrote:-Because vectored unit are Khthons, too, they should also have 'vector' attack.
I got around that by making them "Lesser Khthon".
fog_of_gold wrote:-Reinclude the fallen and allow them to level to their Mages. Of course, you shouldn't forget to include the vector attack.
The mages are gone, but maybe some level 0 human/khthon can still be a possibility...
fog_of_gold wrote:You are able to tranzform leaders. Don't allow this against leader (I don't know, if it's possible, but the best would be, to make the whole attack disable against leader)
Fixed.
fog_of_gold wrote:Sugestion: remove the minus from the damage
I do not understand.
fog_of_gold wrote:-Upload your era into the server 1.6 and change all add-ons --> campaigns in:
_main.cfg
eras/Archaic_Era.cfg
units/*_race.cfg

because it's annoying to allways debug and I think, if you do so, we'll have more helper.
Well, I don't want to make those changes every time any more than you do. But those files don't change much between versions, so I can post the 1.6 versions here (later, and they will be in first post so they don't get buried).

Thanks.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.5 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » February 9th, 2010, 7:09 pm

doofus-01 wrote:
fog_of_gold wrote:-Reinclude the fallen and allow them to level to their Mages. Of course, you shouldn't forget to include the vector attack.
The mages are gone, but maybe some level 0 human/khthon can still be a possibility...

Would be nice, too.

doofus-01 wrote:
fog_of_gold wrote:Sugestion: remove the minus from the damage
I do not understand.

Your damage is shown "-10", for eample, after an attack. I wanted to suggest to make that to "10", like all shown damage.

fog_of_gold wrote:-Upload your era into the server 1.6 and change all add-ons --> campaigns in:
_main.cfg
eras/Archaic_Era.cfg
units/*_race.cfg

because it's annoying to allways debug and I think, if you do so, we'll have more helper.
Well, I don't want to make those changes every time any more than you do. But those files don't change much between versions, so I can post the 1.6 versions here (later, and they will be in first post so they don't get buried).

Thanks.[/quote]
What you could do, too, is, to upload the changed files or at least mention they so I'm (and all other interested guys) able to make them replace the old ones without killing the files, which include the other files.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.5 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » February 20th, 2010, 3:36 pm

0.9.7 just went to the server.
- I've added some traits to the primevalist humans
- The Phantoms have a "new unit" which is not really a unit, but a phantom unit. It looks like a ghost in the recruit menu, but what you get is a random level 1 (Egyptian-ish) phantom that has no ZOC, cannot level up, and disappears if the enemy attacks and hits it. It really sucks, but it is really cheap. It should not be obvious to the opponent that the unit is not real, so it is hard to distinguish them aside from the XP font colour. Like the Khthon Vector attack, the AI will not know how to use this, but I hope to correct that some day.
- I added some .txt files that have the add-ons(1.7) -> campaigns(1.6) conversion, if you want to use the era in 1.6, rename those files. I couldn't test it, so I may have missed some things. If I am alerted to that, I will fix it next time.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.5 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » February 20th, 2010, 6:02 pm

doofus-01 wrote: - The Phantoms have a "new unit" which is not really a unit, but a phantom unit. It looks like a ghost in the recruit menu, but what you get is a random level 1 (Egyptian-ish) phantom that has no ZOC, cannot level up, and disappears if the enemy attacks and hits it. It really sucks, but it is really cheap. It should not be obvious to the opponent that the unit is not real, so it is hard to distinguish them aside from the XP font colour. Like the Khthon Vector attack, the AI will not know how to use this, but I hope to correct that some day.

Great unit. Unfortunatly, they are too strong. They are causing much damage and are able to catch villages for 3 gold. Moves its cost to 5 or don't allow to catch villages. The code to forbit that could be:
Spoiler:

I hope, you understand what I'm thinking of.


Also, it would be great to explain him in a dummy ability.

Once a time, there was a bug not disappering but unfortunatly I'm not able to reconstruct the situation or to find the error because I'm not able to understand how you made that.

- I added some .txt files that have the add-ons(1.7) -> campaigns(1.6) conversion, if you want to use the era in 1.6, rename those files. I couldn't test it, so I may have missed some things. If I am alerted to that, I will fix it next time.

There's only one thing missing: change the ~add-ons into @campaings in unit/*_race.cfg (But only there!)

Edit: to make the ai use your new units useful I think, it's enough to make them being scouts.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.7 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm

0.9.8 went to the server. I split off the European phantoms into a faction called Spirits because I didn't really like them with the Egyptian ones. I may move them back.

fog_of_gold wrote:There's only one thing missing: change the ~add-ons into @campaings in unit/*_race.cfg (But only there!)
I put the line for 1.6 there, but didn't make a new file. It causes an error message, but not a crash, so hopefully it works well enough.
fog_of_gold wrote:Also, it would be great to explain him in a dummy ability.
They are supposed to be difficult to distinguish from the real thing, a dummy ability would ruin that. I did put the Ghost-like thing in the help menu though.
fog_of_gold wrote:Unfortunatly, they are too strong. They are causing much damage and are able to catch villages for 3 gold. Moves its cost to 5 or don't allow to catch villages.
I think they should be able to capture villages, but I see your point. I'm not sure how to fix this, but I'll deal with it next time.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.7 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 7th, 2010, 8:09 pm

0.9.8 went to the server. I split off the European phantoms into a faction called Spirits because I didn't really like them with the Egyptian ones. I may move them back.

Yeah, they don't really fit together. The trouble would be, to have enough units for both factions.

fog_of_gold wrote:There's only one thing missing: change the ~add-ons into @campaings in unit/*_race.cfg (But only there!)
I put the line for 1.6 there, but didn't make a new file. It causes an error message, but not a crash, so hopefully it works well enough.

Great idea.. it's working.

fog_of_gold wrote:Also, it would be great to explain him in a dummy ability.
They are supposed to be difficult to distinguish from the real thing, a dummy ability would ruin that. I did put the Ghost-like thing in the help menu though.

I understand. The only problem is, that you can theoratically find out, which one the Vapor is, when there's no fog and shroud. To make the owner of this units know who's the Vapor, use a select event which just unstore the variable unit with a text 'Vapor', like in the steelhive faction|lightshifter.

fog_of_gold wrote:Unfortunatly, they are too strong. They are causing much damage and are able to catch villages for 3 gold. Moves its cost to 5 or don't allow to catch villages.
I think they should be able to capture villages, but I see your point. I'm not sure how to fix this, but I'll deal with it next time.

A thing you could do is, to let them dissapear after a time. That may even make them cost to much, depending on the number of rounds they are able to stay alive.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.7 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 7th, 2010, 9:28 pm

Maybe a countdown that has a label and gets reset when they attack. That would discourage using them as cheap village grabbers, and the label would distinguish them for the player. If they go some number of turns without attacking, they disappear.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.7 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 7th, 2010, 10:05 pm

Good idea. But instead of the lables, I'd suggest to use the select event in combination of the text of [unstore_unit] because the lable won't move toughter with the unit (only with a delay of a side turn) which can make it little bit difficult to understand. You could also make a [set_menu_item] which is also bad because of the limit, which can cause problems in the ageless era.

Edit:
About the countdown, I'd suggest something between 2 and 3. Maybe even random.

Edit:
You can also make a mix of the lable idea and the select idea: Every time you select such a unit the lable will be refreshed.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.7 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 16th, 2010, 12:26 pm

0.9.9 just went up. Most noticeable changes:
- Khthon have a corrupted woodsman, as a ranged unit to recruit. It's just a regular woodsman, but with stats (and colour) modified.
- Phantom vapors now have a countdown as discussed above. Unfortunately, I could not get the text stuff figured out (the countdown should not be visible to other players), so it is silent for now. Will fix next time.
- Spirits (split from Phantoms, must figure out a better name) have a new unit. It is a statue that comes alive at night and can petrify opponents. But the opponents become un-stoned next daytime turn. This scheme may need some adjustments. The sprite for level 3 is not drawn yet, so it just uses level 2 for now.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.9 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 16th, 2010, 4:19 pm

some great ideas. But your afficted will only be green one time because you forgot 'first_time_only=no'. 'pertify' won't work in 1.6 so I'm going to download the beta wesnoth.

Edit: having a unit being able to be recruit and can be stoned most of the time is really too strong. Your enemies can't attack or pass throught them so I'd suggest to set the max_moves to 0 instead of that.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.9 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 29th, 2010, 2:10 pm

0.9.10 went to the server. There is a new Spirits unit, it is a cheap little annoying thing, sort of like a goblin. That is its sole purpose, to be cheap.
fog_of_gold wrote:But your afficted will only be green one time because you forgot 'first_time_only=no'.
I've lost track of how many times I have made that error. I hate that thing.

fog_of_gold wrote:Edit: having a unit being able to be recruit and can be stoned most of the time is really too strong. Your enemies can't attack or pass throught them so I'd suggest to set the max_moves to 0 instead of that.
They can't be attacked, but they can't attack either... But I agree that blocking the enemy is a problem. So I've changed the conditions for the change of state: They will turn to stone if they are not next to an ally at the start of a daytime turn. They will re-animate if they are next to an ally at the start of a nighttime turn. This will prevent them from forming an impassable stone phalanx. It should also prevent them from clogging the recruiting castle.
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.9 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby fog_of_gold » March 29th, 2010, 2:39 pm

doofus-01 wrote:
fog_of_gold wrote:But your afficted will only be green one time because you forgot 'first_time_only=no'.
I've lost track of how many times I have made that error. I hate that thing.

Yes. I do, too.

Edit:
The way you did it now isn't solved good: You'll only get stoned if you want (because you'll troop your units) to and especially retreat is too mean: You just go into a village and every time the position is save you move your new unit at next to the have-to-retreat-statue. Better would be to disallow to attack or defend against an attack and to disallow to move so it's nearly the same like stoned but you can be attacked. About the unstone if friendly unit, it would get better to disallow this for unit with your ability 'stone'
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Re: Archaic Era 0.9.9 (for BfW 1.8)

Postby doofus-01 » March 30th, 2010, 1:06 pm

I've sent 0.9.11 with some changes to spirits faction.
fog_of_gold wrote:The way you did it now isn't solved good: You'll only get stoned if you want (because you'll troop your units) to and especially retreat is too mean: You just go into a village and every time the position is save you move your new unit at next to the have-to-retreat-statue. Better would be to disallow to attack or defend against an attack and to disallow to move so it's nearly the same like stoned but you can be attacked.
Making it so you have no control over whether the unit gets stoned or not, and making it so that it is not really stoned, but just paralyzed and vulnerable sounds like a different ability. Or rather a disability. Like narcolepsy.

Now the statues should not turn to stone in villages, so you can't lock up a village anymore. I think that was part of your point? I'm afraid I did not fully understand.

The other change is that it is not daylight that frees the victims anymore, that would be no good in caves. Now it is when the unit that stoned them is killed that the victims are freed.
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