18th Century Warfare MP Era

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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.7.5

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » July 28th, 2010, 7:05 am

Gwynnedrion wrote:how's that campaign coming along?

I never started working on a campaign, someone else independently said that he was going to make one, but given that he never messaged me again probably either didn't start it or dropped it.

Velensk wrote:I don't know if you still want/need it but I found a way to get the transports to work and I told you I'd tell you when I did.

Thanks.

I'll consider it, I'm sure most of the people who play the era would like that to be added, but at the moment it isn't a priority.

I have to be sure it won't cause player any sort of problems in online games, which is what the era is designed for.

And then I would have to adapt it to meet the era needs and see in what way the change should be done and implemented, a change of this nature is likely to lead to a need re-balancing units as well.

Another problem is that there too many types of units to be tranported, and obviously I cannot create one transport per unit.

My idea would be to be able to choose what units to disembark from a transport, basically make a window appear appear giving the player difference choices, instead of being pre-determined. And of course that system should be able to work independently of the map configuration and without causing any sort of problems in online games.

And I just don't have the time to do all of that at the moment.

So until I'm free, I'll just leave it as it is.

The era is working fine right now.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby TheCoward » August 2nd, 2010, 10:06 pm

If I command a unit with no attacks to attack someone (accidentally, of course :whistle: ), even if I hit cancel,
the unit still moves next to the enemy, and then I can't move anyone else and I can't end my turn.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » August 2nd, 2010, 11:00 pm

TheCoward wrote:If I command a unit with no attacks to attack someone (accidentally, of course :whistle: ), even if I hit cancel,
the unit still moves next to the enemy, and then I can't move anyone else and I can't end my turn.

That's a Wesnoth client bug.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby Caulder » August 12th, 2010, 7:34 am

Let me tell you first, that I really enjoy playing this era. It goes good with maps based on real places or fantasy places. Lol Now I don't know if you're taking ideas or not, or if there should be another place to put this, but I have some ideas that you don't even have to use. Doesn't matter really, just a fanboy trying to pass them off but here goes:

The first unit is an Air Balloon, which would be used primarily as a scout-type unit or something along those lines. I figured that it should have not TOO much movement nothing over 7, but give it skirmish, and being able to fly would really help. I find a lot of the times that crossing mountain ranges, or even hilly regions is a pain in the ass. Now I know that it's supposed to be realistic, but it's hard to get to a village that's in the middle of the mountains, or on the other side. It should have incredibly low resistances to all pierce, impact, and blade and to justify someone hitting it with a sword just say it needs to land every so often for supplies etc. And it's up to you if you even want to give it an attack, I would say something like 5-10dmg with 1-2 hits. Usually meaning it's someone dropping a rock or something, really primitive but it's not game breaking in the least, mostly allows you to sneakily take an unguarded villages, or allow a flanking attack. You could make it fairly expensive, but it's still fairly weak, something like a Spy, where you shouldn't have too many or else you're wasting money. 1 or 2 per game is more than enough. Good news is that both Revolutionary and Royal's should be able to use them, as in most wars that used Air Balloons, both sides used them, American Civil War comes to mind. Also Air Balloons comply with 18th century, I do believe they were invented mid 1600's.

Now my second idea is really just a rough one. I don't know about you but it's incredibly time straining to play a map with more than 40x40 with the era. If it's a larger map I find my army consisting of mostly Troopers or Skirmishers (Yeah I play royals a lot) As it takes an incredibly long time to reach places, and I refuse to use horse artillery. I really don't know where I'm going with this but something like a Railway Engineer or, some unit or something with an ability to increase the movement points to other units around it. Or even give them an ability for a turn where they get an extra movement point or two. Anything is better than waiting for my Howitzers to snail their way across the entire map to my enemie's castle. Now yeah I know 18th century didn't really have extensive railways as even the steam engine was just being introduced but, with the incredible amount of terrain movement costs that units have, a battle that should have only taken a few turns gets dragged on longer than it should. Not to mention the HUGE reliance we now need on Howitzers (Who by the way are slow as hell. Lol) as almost every unit and their mother has fortification, and that flanking, and horse-charging is useless against it now. To be honest I don't even think this one could work, but I just thought something might be able to. Lol

Well thanks for reading and like I said you're doing an awesome job, I try to play as much as I can. Haha I'd really like a return to the good ol' days of Flanking doing double damage buuut I guess we can't get everything eh? ;] Lmao And don't get the wrong idea you don't even have to even think twice about using those ideas I just wanted to put them out there to give any help.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » August 13th, 2010, 7:39 pm

1-As matter of there is an Air Balloon I made among the era files, I decided not to use it because it makes capturing villages too easy.

Passing mountains was never supposed to be easy.

2-Artillery is supposed to be slow, if I did it that would beat the point of making them being slow and would render infantry useless.
Fortresses are indeed supposed to be anoying, because they were anoying in real life too.

This era is different from the default era, the gameplay requires more than just hurling units. In this one you actually to think and come up with ways to counter the enemy.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby Caulder » August 13th, 2010, 10:25 pm

Yeah I was afraid of the balloons being too easily able to grab villages but it could always be fixed with lower speed. I mean even allowing something that can move TWO hexes over mountains is infinately better than everything else that only moves 1, or none.

I understand that it's supposed to be slow but that's why realistically they had brought about ways to speed things up in real life. But like I said this idea wasn't really an idea.. just sitting there. Lol

And it's different than just hurling units. or else I'd just make one type of unit. Ofcourse it's like a big Rock Paper Scissors game, but it's kinda unfair when the Scissors are also about 50%+ of the time needed to kill the Rock but they're dull as well. That was a stupid anology I know, but Artillery is also used to kill mounted units who are also on fortress or even other artillery. While half the time I'm using Mounted units to counter infantry, because it's hard to find artillery out in the open, and if I do there will only be one or two at most. You see the problem I have is that we have such a huge reliance on one unit, but it takes such an incredibly long time to get them anywhere. There's a difference between trying to strategize and defeat an enemy, and NEEDING an overwhelming advantage to beat him, even that's not gauranteed. Unless the main battle field is more of an open field dotted with trees here and there, games aren't really decided for a LONG time. The more villages and fortresses there are on the battle the longer it takes and I'm not saying 2 or 3 turns like in a normal game, but almost by 10 turns atleast. Especially if you have equal forces it's incredibly hard to make any movement into enemy lands. A lot of the time battles where I'm grabbing their villages and barely putting up a fight seems to win more often than brute force.

I'm trying not to sound like I'm complaining but I don't know how else to put it. Literally the only unit I can use on a fortified enemy is Howitzers right? I mean there's others like snipe, but 10-1 or 10-2 isn't enough damage to take down the defenders. I tried thinking about maybe poisoning them, but hell every unit and their mother has fortify so it's pointless. And so we come to a dilema, Howitzers transcend our Infantry beat mounted which beat artillery which beat infantry circle, and are used to beat all three of them if they're in a fortress, however they still come with the main weakness that is incredibly slow movement and movement costs. But this is why I had that stupid idea of Railway engineers, or something. Increasing the movement points of the unit would be unbalanced, but having a unit able to increase their movement points, but have to stand beside them the entire time doesn't seem too unbalanced. i mean it would cost extra money, the engineer should have no attack, or like attack as strong as a peasant would. But like I said I've never seen it done before and I have no clue whether it could be done or not.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » August 14th, 2010, 3:06 am

I think the problem is your terrible use of units.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby Caulder » August 14th, 2010, 8:28 pm

You can't tell me that you don't NEED howitzers to take a fortress. Hell half the time I need them to even clear off villages. You said you tried to make your era so that you don't just hurl units at the enemy but half the time you ARE doing that. There is never a time when you don't hope you outnumber your enemy. Because when it comes down to you having 30% def, and your enemy has 80% there's just no way you could win that head to head.

Terrible use of units my ass. Lol What do you suggest to fight mounted units in fortresses, hmm? I mean they have 60% defense even infantry can't beat that especially if they're out in the open, and the best they have going for them is forest tiles while more often than not fortresses are just flat in the middle of plains or even better near shallow water. So you have to use more Howitzers correct? And what if the enemy has artillery in their castle? What, are you going to calvary charge them when they have 20% even when you only do like 5-4, chances of it hitting are none to slim. So you can't tell me that there's an incredible reliance on howitzers.

Finally why I was saying I use Calvary and artillery most of the time, is because that's all you need. Troopers during the day kill Mounted Militia one hit, and almost every other lvl 1, maybe some lvl 2s as well. During the dawn and sunset they kill Militias and peasants only one hit. I barely ever use the artillery unit to be honest, if something is out in the open I'll use a Trooper or other mounted unit, and if it's on a village or fortress you use the howitzer. Maybe I'll use the infantry for defensive purposes to pull back during the night but like I said, even with flank they're useless against someone in a fortress or village.

You said you tried to include realism but man you left that a long time ago, The fact that 1 man can have enemies on all sides and actually kill more than 1-3 NOT counting if he levels up isn't even real anymore. Lol

Edit: I actually just tried it for fun I put one infantry in a fortress tile that was sorrounded by nothing but grassland, and was being attacked by 6 Revolutionary soldiers. What happened you ask? He's now an Imperial Guard and everything else is dead. I'm fairly certain the same would have happened to a mounted unit, and an artillery unit. It wouldn't matter you NEED the howitzer to take it down. Or even if you use a sniper unit, you still need to have atleast a 2 to 1 advantage to beat the unit on the fortress. You always do, in any game, however it other games there's never a need for a sole unit to clear fortified units. Or atleast there's more than one strategy. You tried to prevent people from just brainlessly throwing units at your enemy and spamming them, but indirectly you caused the need for a single unit or else you just simply can't win.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » August 15th, 2010, 4:44 am

Caulder wrote:You can't tell me that you don't NEED howitzers to take a fortress. Hell half the time I need them to even clear off villages.

When in the world did I say that?

Caulder wrote:You said you tried to make your era so that you don't just hurl units at the enemy but half the time you ARE doing that. There is never a time when you don't hope you outnumber your enemy. Because when it comes down to you having 30% def, and your enemy has 80% there's just no way you could win that head to head.

Precisely, don't hurl units pointlessly at a fortress, if it isn't critical and isn't blocking the way, then just ignore it and capture villages, force the enemy to come out of hiding by capturing his source of income.

And if you need a howitzer to get through an X place, then just recruit some. I don't really get what your complaning about.

Caulder wrote:Terrible use of units my ass.

From reading your post, I understood the following thing:
-You use cavalry to defend fortresses, that should be avoided if possble.
-Using only cavalry against infantry is a bad idea, given that they weak against pierce and infantry is strong against blade, cavalry is more expensive and does a poor job at defending locations.

Caulder wrote:Lol What do you suggest to fight mounted units in fortresses, hmm?


What, are you going to calvary charge them when they have 20% even when you only do like 5-4, chances of it hitting are none to slim. So you can't tell me that there's an incredible reliance on howitzers.[/quote]
You should use sarcasm when it makes sense, and if you going to discuss seriously, don't make it sound like a kid's angry rant.

You are supposed to use howitzers to attack fortresses and villages, that's why they are siege artillery.

Aside of that they are just slow, expensive and extremely vulnerable.

Caulder wrote:You said you tried to include realism but man you left that a long time ago, The fact that 1 man can have enemies on all sides and actually kill more than 1-3 NOT counting if he levels up isn't even real anymore. Lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege

Caulder wrote:Edit: I actually just tried it for fun I put one infantry in a fortress tile that was sorrounded by nothing but grassland, and was being attacked by 6 Revolutionary soldiers. What happened you ask? He's now an Imperial Guard and everything else is dead. I'm fairly certain the same would have happened to a mounted unit, and an artillery unit. It wouldn't matter you NEED the howitzer to take it down. Or even if you use a sniper unit, you still need to have atleast a 2 to 1 advantage to beat the unit on the fortress. You always do, in any game, however it other games there's never a need for a sole unit to clear fortified units. Or atleast there's more than one strategy. You tried to prevent people from just brainlessly throwing units at your enemy and spamming them, but indirectly you caused the need for a single unit or else you just simply can't win.

What a shocker

The only thing I know is that I'm glad the rest of the people who downloaded the addon understand that this era is different from default, and it isn't meant to be played in the same way, and in general it is not suited for short games.

Now, if you would stop wasting my time, I'd be thankful..
18th Century Warfare Era, try it out!
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 5.8.5

Postby Caulder » August 15th, 2010, 5:07 am

Alright whatever I'm done arguing because we could continue this for ever just twisting each other words. Either way even if you DID read the wikipedia link you'll read that there's more than just howitzers that could take a seige. The only thing I've complained about this entire time was the major reliance on Howitzers, maybe you should read the link, you could include a unit that has a sapping ability attack, or change the infiltration ability to allow it to have higher attack chances on units in villages and fortresses.

I originally came here to compliment you on your job well done and it's turned into a hatefest, after reading previous posts I can see now that this is how you normally treat people. Well anyways good job on the era, I hope you had fun making it as I have had playing it.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 6.0.0

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » October 3rd, 2010, 10:56 pm

Big update :mrgreen:

Relevant changes:
Officers, Lieutenants, Major and Marshall now can recruit units(the same way a regular leader recruits).
Transport ships have been introduced, they recruit units too(rather than actually tranporting them, just click on any surrounding hex of land, except mountains).
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 6.0.0

Postby Gwynnedrion » October 4th, 2010, 8:38 am

@Papa: Thanks for the update. It improves gameplay even further. I didn't want to intervene with the whole discussion but I just wanted to make clear that the gameplay is realistic. Armies in those days marched for months (Napoleon's Grand Armée for instance) and the mixed use of infantrey,cavalary and artillery were no mere common.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 6.1.0

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » October 6th, 2010, 6:37 pm

I tweaked units defenses, they shouldn't be as extreme as they were in the past.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 6.2.0

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » April 27th, 2011, 8:51 pm

New version released.

As always, if any bug is found, please let me know.
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Re: 18th Century Warfare Era 6.2.1

Postby PapaSmurfReloaded » May 30th, 2011, 7:24 pm

I uploaded the era onto the 1.9.X addon server, no more updates will be made for 1.8 Stable.

If somebody spots a bug or glitch, let me know.
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