Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

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SnipeSmash
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by SnipeSmash » July 24th, 2019, 8:32 am

Can there be a Flying trait for units?

Example:
Spearman walks up to bat, The only option he has is to throw javelin.
Swordsman walks up to bat, but has no ranged attack. He can't do anything.
Bat attacks swordsman with fangs, swordsman retaliates with sword.

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Ravana
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by Ravana » July 24th, 2019, 2:48 pm

No, it is impossible to balance.

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IPS
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by IPS » July 24th, 2019, 6:56 pm

SnipeSmash wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 8:32 am
Can there be a Flying trait for units?
Cannot be added to ageless beause actually it's impossible to balance.
In case to add such trait, you would require a completely new era and gameplay which has its own balance.

Also this concept is seen in games like Age of Wonders and the idea is sexy, but sadly even if this new era and special are added, such thing cannot be implemented to ageless.



Btw, concerning to other topics, I would like to talk about a pair of replays and my view
Afterpond replay.gz
A game of afterpond in which you the recruit list was really long.
(62.45 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Played this and can relate that ageless was never concerned to afterlife/Afterpond gameplay balance. Some havoc and issues aren't being considered about many units that can be a real annoyanse in this game mod. Thing that cannot be fixed at all with just adjusting stats because the very first waves are really weak and Lv0 - Lv1 pricing is determinant in early waves in this gameplay. There are many abusable things in this game mode. But on here I will only coment what I've seen.

1.- Berserk/skirmisher: Yea, it's known that these 2 specials are really troublesome in this game, but specially if these are together, like in Ukian Attack Dogs. Kinda abusable because you can adquire a really cheap one of these by leveling a cheap 9g ukian dog. Not very present in this game because I'm conscient that my opponent did not attempt to abuse this.
2.- Poison/Slow being an imporant aspect in this game: Yea, I can relate that if this was my first game in this gamemode, I spectated several game of these before trying it. Tribalist Shamans made a real chaos in enemy side really early not because of their base damage, just because of their poison + magical on ranged. Apart of giving me a really decent counter of enemy poisoning.
3.- Plague: On this gamemode, plague of certain units is kinda abusable, thing that must be reviewed soon. Combined with the poor pricing and the havoc they can do, in many case this can break certain games with this giving an important advantage.
4.- Centaur Archers: Dunno, I just wanted a not very expensive and movible archer for this matchup, but for my surprise did not find any important flaw in this unit. 60% def at forest, no defense handicaps like other mounted, good terrain defenses, really nice unit. Wouldn't complain about using them with increaed XP to level up.

Was an entertaining game, and the large recruit list makes this a repeatable experience.

Bugged dimensional gate.gz
Not that much can be said from here, a lv1 gate that killed a Thrallment I plagued as meatshield and that became an instant Lv2 ifreeti with only 1 kill which was GG for me.
(81.72 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
Still my reaction was like "What the hell, rlly?!"
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Ravana
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by Ravana » July 24th, 2019, 7:05 pm

Today I was informed that centaurs leadership is stackable too. From what I noticed, level 1 fighter is too cost efficient.

Afterlife could reduce poison in early stages - I have asked that for creep war too, but vasya did not want that.

Dimensional gate is designed to level after one kill. For level 0 it is not much of a problem, and in EoMa (I think) only source of level 1 is banishment.

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ghype
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by ghype » July 24th, 2019, 8:17 pm

My centaurs use default leadership if I remember right. What however could be considered stackable is centaurs banner ability.
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destroying enemy castle here: Orcish Castle - Destroyed - work in progress

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Ravana
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by Ravana » July 24th, 2019, 8:32 pm

Having 20 in addition to leadership would be ok, but this allowed leadership+4x20%. or 5x20%.

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IPS
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by IPS » July 26th, 2019, 3:41 am

Well, this is the first of two parts I want to implement for a balance update for 1st of August.
On second part will focus on Milenium Era balance, because there are many abusable stuff in there.

Changelog is still at this spoiler as well as in the .rar file.

Still, some revision is needed in case something is not working as expected (Like Ukian Dogs adjustments or Hive's Queen/Overmind self heal (2) and (3)
Spoiler:
Attachments
AE 4.25 (a).rar
This one, not only contains balance suggestion, these are already partially transcribed!
(182.42 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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ghype
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.22

Post by ghype » July 28th, 2019, 5:41 pm

Ravana wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 1:42 pm

Code: Select all

Version 4.22:
* Units and Factions
    * Added union era - single faction that can recruit all recruitable Ageless units
I just checked this out and gotta say it's nice to see this function coming AE as well. Are you interested in expanding this concept by having options on setting a cap on how many random recruits you can get and have a 2nd options if you want to go all lv1 or lv0 or mixed?
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Ravana
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by Ravana » July 28th, 2019, 6:01 pm

No, that is job for [modification].

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IPS
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by IPS » July 28th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Played a game with Quequo in Laterlife, the game was rough and lasted 27 turns. Quequo seeemed to have early game advantage which slowly was being decreased by constant harass of long range Attack Dog (which ended with 14 movement points lol), allowing IPS to kill some important units that Quequo was training. And slowly, the skeletical plague was being stomped and not much after that Quequo has a determinat lost.

The overplays that Ukian dogs allow to try are really imponent. Giving IPS epic turns with overplays of overpowered dogs.
Attachments
Laterlife replay.gz
Game in which I was forced to use few blatant overpowered, the overplays done by the abuse of such units is incredible. Revealing their truth potential and reasons of such hard nerfs.
(87.9 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by IPS » July 30th, 2019, 11:36 pm

Afterpass replay which decided me to do few changes to welkings tanks (guardians and luna protectors). Not doing much to Sun Guardians's ranged damage. While Lv2 lunaprotector will receive a little more damage while defending due to a slight 20% --> 17% blade/pierce resistances; as compensations, both level up of Sages are slightly stronger, specially the ones that loses healing at lv3.

Had in mind to add +Aimed to Ethreal Orb's ranged, but quite convinced that these healers doesn't even need to have damage to rock. Their healing and tankyness were the things that allowed me to win that game lol.

Afterpass replay.gz
A replay of a game of afterlife in which I (ab)used Ukian dogs properties.
(75.29 KiB) Downloaded 16 times


Changes to:
(+) Despair, slight buff to spearmen, and general adjustments
(-) Phantom, Mummy nerfs.
* Welking, Sun Guardian and (Lv2 Luna protector) nerf, Lv2 and Lv3 sages now slightly stronger.
* Sylvan Adjustments.
(-) Forest Keepers, Wybern's ranged nerf, various slight nerfs, Thorn witches can now defend from mele (3-1) (4-1) and (3-2)
(+) Sylvans considerations, Acolytes now have an optional 3-2 ranged slow (as default's shaman), their ghost now have 2-2 ranged, fire sprites and level up can now cure from poison alied units next to them considering that these elves have poor healing until Lv3 Acolytes.
(*) Milenium - Thelians adjustments.
(-) MERCS - Mercenaris, Rider advancements nerfs.

AE 4.26 (b).rar
Second part of AE feedback for 4.26
(359.3 KiB) Downloaded 17 times

Spoiler:

Sorry for editing this post, but triple posting is even worse.

After spectating I found some irregularities with faeries, like they cannot move at ulwalkable. So added them a some what inefficient 30% defense and 2 movement cost at ulwalkable. Apart of other minor changes.

- EoC faeries used to have 50% cave defense and 1 MP cost at there, standarized to 40% and 2 movement cost
- Milenium's faeries used to have 30% cave defense and 3 MP cost at there, standarized to 40% and 2 movement cost.

Later I want to focus more at giving slight differences to faeries of both factions, giving minor but notisable differences later because both factions have very different gameplay (Milenium's have easy access to Lv1 +8 healing while EoC Sylvans doesn't even have healing+8 in any of their lv2's.

AE (faeries hotfix).rar
Detected Irregularities that I didn't realize which are better to fix before the update.
(238.58 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Fourafter replay (spectated).gz
A game of 4 persons that showed interesting ressults, revealing that primeval nerf is needed because that game should have ended a lot earlier lol ; and that pre-nerfed dusk faeries with their stats are abusable if well used.
(76.38 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.24

Post by IPS » August 7th, 2019, 4:23 pm

Well, this is quite a not that long replay of a 33 turns game in afterlife in which GedemX got trolled by not knowing how to counter that one unit. KingOfWesnoth just RPG'ed to victory at certain momment of the game.

At least, this allowed me to me to visualice certain issues with Fallen's consume special that needs fixing because is somewhat exploitable. I will mention various notes.

- Consume can overpass maximun health (don't know if that's intended or not)
- Consume will full heal no matter if the slain unit is even at 1 hp (14 hit damage 0.50 consume will heal +7 even on 1 HP units).
- Consume is not handicaped unlike Drain in XP mod (pretty difficult to balance due consume ratios aren't constant).
- Consume unlike drain, does work at undead, machines, elements, spectres, etc.
- AI doesn't understand how it works, which is considerably grave.
- This could occur because the opponent had no idea how to counter that plan, resulting in a blatant defeat.

XP mod fixing itself is not a proper solution, as said, consume ratios varies. But things that can help at fixing these irregularities could be:
- Instead of making consume be a ratio, making it constant values, unallowing the healing increase as damage increases as well. This is specially easier to implement and gives an effective solution to certain balance issues consume can provoke. Certaint attack is meant to heal the unit by an amount of damage, just make the consume heal that amount of hp while a sucessful hit.
- Fix any other unwanted detail at this special. As said, there is a chance that various of these mentioned details are intentional, so it all depends to Ghype's criteria in which of these mentioned facts will maintain, rework or eliminate.


As said, I've mentioned that there were various ways to slain that unit when it was outumbered that hard and when it wasn't that strong, just that the opponent wasted all his unit and eliminated his income anulating his own chances to win... But in name of development, it was an opportunate game to watch.
KingOfWesnoth's Fallen Pugnator.gz
(64.36 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
PART C of the changes, don't know if I'm doing a D part, but I ensured to do the best possible at here, balancing various stuff. Maybe will add a D part with not mayor changes to a faction. Well will list the changes.


AE. 4.25 (c).rar
(352 KiB) Not downloaded yet


The list of changes is larger than it used to be, I've seen that the changes were done, but a failure in file managing erased my list of all exact changes that were done :( ... but In this spoiler I will list the most relevant, what I can remember...


Spoiler:


Btw, because I messed up with the file where it was listed all every single change... be careful and verify everything works fine. I'm sure that the changes were done, just that the file with the list of changes died by stupid human misstake from me :(
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