Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.33

[RenoOfTurks]

This Era need much love!!The thread looks abadoned!

P.s.
Can someone post a fixed Light Spirit(without movement problem) from the celestial faction?

[mnewton1]

My dear thread abandoned?! Never!


Hi everyone, how have you been? I've been swell. It appears I haven't been on in awhile and in my absence a few (pages) of bug reports have piled up...

Well I guess I should get to fixing them and uploading 4.11. Where to begin... I have to find the files to see if I have done any work on them that isn't on SVN... the pbl file too. Need to update Wesnoth and take a look at the changelog. And most importantly I would think is I actually have to start working on getting 4.11 out and do some other random things that need to be done.

Lets see how this goes shall we?

*End Scene*

(I don't know what the heck I wrote above but I will see if I can't get started working again. Got a few things planned besides bug fixes)

[Ravana]

List of units with illegal id:

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AE Katoblepon-Magnum
AE South-Seas Arsonist
AE South-Seas Caster
AE South-Seas Seaman
AE South-Seas Shoreman
AE South-Seas Swimmer
AE South-Seas Able-Seaman
AE South-Seas Demolitionist
AE South-Seas Diver
AE South-Seas Rover
AE South-Seas Salvager
AE South-Seas Seahag
AE South-Seas Zephyrist
AE Ceresian Man-at-Arms
AE Katoblepon-Magnum
AE Ophis-Magnum
AE South-Seas Deck-Master
AE South-Seas Marine
AE South-Seas Sea-Scourge
AE South-Seas Sky-Caller
AE South-Seas Spitfire
AE South-Seas Seawolf
AE South-Seas Wrecker
AE Anakes Arch-daemon
AE Mercenary Soldier-of-Fortune
AE Mercenary Man-at-Arms
Nine-Tailed Fox

Apostrophes ( ' ), slashes ( / ), plus (+), minus (-) and ( ^ ) - i don't know the name of the character - are also leading to corrupted savegames.

Added units with ' in id.

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AE Emperor's Guard Martial Artist
AE Emperor's Guard Mounted Samurai
AE Emperor's Guard Ninja
AE Emperor's Guard Ozutsu
AE Emperor's Guard Ryu
AE Emperor's Guard Samurai
AE Emperor's Guard Shuriken Thrower
AE Emperor's Guard Yumi
AE Emperor's Guard Kyu
AE Emperor's Guard Musha
AE Emperor's Guard Samurai Captain
AE Emperor's Guard Ninja Assassin
AE Emperor's Guard Ninja Warrior
AE Emperor's Guard Kyushu
AE Emperor's Guard Tatsu
AE Emperor's Guard Bushi
AE Emperor's Guard Monofu
AE Emperor's Guard Starshower
AE Emperor's Guard Elite Kyu
AE Emperor's Guard Blackbelt
AE Emperor's Guard Shogun
AE Emperor's Guard Shadow Ninja
AE Emperor's Guard Shinobi
AE Emperor's Guard Kyushuryu
AE Emperor's Guard Ryong
AE Emperor's Guard Demonic Samurai
AE Emperor's Guard Imperial Guard
AE Emperor's Guard Tsuwamono
AE Emperor's Guard Daimyo

[mnewton1]

Ravana, what operating system do you use? Windows, Linux, or Mac?

[Ravana]

Windows, but list is based on

WARNING : characters "$", "&", "*", "-", "(" and ")" are illegal for use in the unit id and must be avoided because they might lead to corrupted saved games

http://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitTypeWML

[RenoOfTurks]

After the bug fixing, if possible, is a good idea add "age of trial" faction and "beyond southern hell" a.n.o. and felinian faction to the ageless(both eras are quite balanced with ageless)...actually the faction into the ageless are all quite old..we need something much new :p

[Ravana]

Ageless_Era/units/EoM_units/celestials/a3_Divine_Champion.cfg and Ageless_Era/units/EoM_units/celestials/a2_Quester.cfg look like 1 should be advance from other, but now both are level 3 with {AMLA_DEFAULT}

Sky Kingdom faction has new unit, sculptor

Dark Berserker has no amla

Moving Fortress and some more yokai units have no amla

AE Equestrian Jockey,AE Equestrian Roamer should not be recruitable in ageless heroes, they are level 3.

This is only suggestion, not bug

Add option for random faction&unit from chosen era in ageless

I suspect this does not work

It looks for unit with its original type not type used in ageless
From default-IE

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[event]
    name=new turn
    [store_unit]
        [filter]
            canrecruit=yes
        [/filter]
        variable=counttemp
    [/store_unit]
    [set_variable]
        name=temp
        value=0
    [/set_variable]
    [while]
        [variable]
            name=counttemp.length
            greater_than="$temp"
        [/variable]
        [do]
            [set_variable]
                name=temp
                add=1
            [/set_variable]
            [store_side]
                side=$temp
                variable=sidetemp
            [/store_side]
            [if]
                [have_unit]
                    side=$temp
                    type=Cavernei Steelclad,Cavernei Thunderguard,Cavernei Stalwart
                [/have_unit]
                [then]
                    [set_variable]
                        name=sidetemp.income
                        increase=2
                    [/set_variable]
                    [modify_side]
                        side=$temp
                        income=$sidetemp.income
                    [/modify_side]
                [/then]
            [/if]
        [/do]
    [/while]
    [clear_variable]
        name=counttemp
    [/clear_variable]
    [clear_variable]
        name=sidetemp
    [/clear_variable]
    [clear_variable]
        name=temp
    [/clear_variable]
[/event]

Steelhive AI error: stderr:

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warning ai/general: At difficulty level NORMAL, trying to recruit a:mixed_fighter but no unit of that type (usage=) is available. Check the recruit and [ai] recruitment_pattern keys for team 'Computer Player 1' (1) against the usage key of the units in question! Removing invalid recruitment_pattern entry and continuing...

AE Khaganate Stoic,AE Khaganate Rigid,AE Khaganate Shieldbearer line needs max xp increase, especially AMLA one.

AE Blight Spore Hive needs cost change.

Movetypes EOM_lightfly EFM_riverman do not exist here (units AE Loyalist and AE Celestial Light_Spirit).

ABILITY_RUNEAURA does not end when it should.

Dark Crusher has no AMLA

Trample+levelup make 2x OOS (AE Elephant, AE Oliephant)

AE Undecided Student has {AMLA_DEFAULT} while it has advances_to=AE Ocean Apprentice,AE Apothecary

AE Bone Snapper does not exist here (advance from terrapin)

Yokai medusa petrify never ends unless scenario removes it

Recruit pattern should be lowercase, else ai recruits nothing

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[multiplayer_side]
    id=Avians
    name= _ "ME - Avians"
    image="units/avians/skylord.png"
    {MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR}
    type=AE Avian Skylord
    leader=AE Avian Skylord,AE Avian Skyterror,AE Avian Nestguard,AE Avian Bladewing,AE Avian Savior,AE Avian Ironbeak,AE Avian Hawkeye,AE Avian Sitter
    random_leader=AE Avian Skylord,AE Avian Skyterror,AE Avian Nestguard,AE Avian Bladewing,AE Avian Savior,AE Avian Ironbeak,AE Avian Hawkeye,AE Avian Sitter
    recruit=AE Avian Grounded,AE Avian Archer,AE Avian Watchman,AE Avian Mother,AE Avian Dart,AE Avian Pigeon,AE Avian Jackdaw, AE Avian Broadwing
    terrain_liked=fmg
    [ai]
        recruitment_pattern=Fighter,Fighter,Scout,Healer,Archer,Scout,Fighter
    [/ai]
[/multiplayer_side]

These 2 units have no image in game or unit description: Stderr report:

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20120804 01:09:41 error display: could not find image for report: 'units/elves-high/cavalier.png~RC(magenta>2)'
20120804 01:09:51 error display: could not open image 'units/elves-high/escrimeur.png'

Chosen of Forest

EoMa:
hitpoints=62
{ABILITY_ULTRACURES}

Ageless:
hitpoints=47
{ABILITY_CURES}
{ABILITY_REGENERATES}

Basically its level 4 and level 3 have almost no difference in ageless(here both look like level 3)

Older bugs i reported

EoMa Mystical jinn has all draining attacks but should have melee and always hit attacks without drain as in EoMa. EoMa summoners are originally lawful but in AE neutral(Reason:fire elemental tree->illuminates). Also jinns ageless arcane resists are higher than original at levels 2,3,4

EoMa rune warrior and rune lord have holy resist where should be arcane resist. Similar problem with same faction tank line.
To fix in file b4-rune_lord line 29 change from

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        holy=40

to

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        arcane=40

And in file b3-rune_warrior line 28 from

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        holy=60

to

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        arcane=60

Ageless_Era\factions\default\default-EoMa
line 30

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    random_leader=AE Shaman,AE DarkShaman,AE GreatLancer,AE Crossbowman

to

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    random_leader=AE Clan Leader,AE DarkShaman,AE GreatLancer,AE Crossbowman

AE shaman does not exists so it kicks all

[AssembledWizard]

Yeah this may have already been mentioned but the Aragwaithi longswordsman changes to a weird sprite when it is attacking and the archer sometimes dissappears when using ageless era, also i think the price of some of the Aragwaithi units should go down because not a single one is under 15 gold. Yes i know it is just a compilaton but fixing the prices would be great. Also it doesn't work for me when i try to play a colossuem match, it just picks random leaders from that same faction.

[-stf-]

Apostrophes ( ' ), slashes ( / ), plus (+), minus (-) and ( ^ ) - i don't know the name of the character - are also leading to corrupted savegames.
Problem is that the unit id is used in statistics section as variable name for calculating the number of killed units which is ok as long as it's not loaded from savegame, when any character that is not allowed for variable names (often only underscore is allowed, wml tolerates also space and minimum of other characters but better avoid them for further compatibility) it's interpretation stops on first occurence where the interpreter expects ( = ) and associated value. Just look into any saved game in later turns (after couple of kills) and look into [statistics] section (somewhere near the end of the file).
So i.e. Dark-eyed = 3 is interpreted as Dark(minus)eyed(=)3 and (minus) is not allowed before (=) so it leads to syntax error and it's displayed as corrupted savegame.
Example:
wrong: id=Dark-knight's slave
correct: id=Dark_knight_s_slave
or id=Dark knight_s slave
or id=Dark knights slave
(basically you should only use underscores, spaces (can be incompatible with some future version) or just remove the characters that are illegal in variable names.

[SiegeTank]

Ravana are you sure that the mystical jinn draining attack was not intended? After all there have been a lot of changes (like removal of dispeller branch and others) Even if it wasnt intended I'd say that Mystical jinns kind of need that drain attack, currently they are the lvl 4 unit with the highest exp requirement (at least in the magic era) and if you remove the draining attack i feel it will be a lacking in strenght.

Also if you notice about the attack of the great efreeti is different than what it is in the Era of Magic. its 10x4 4x10 instead of 10x4 22x2 but I think this must have been a balancing decision rather than a bug.

Also not only that but the jinn is called mystic in the Ageless era and its called mystical in the Era of Magic. It is given one more speed as well. Also other units have different parameters than the Era of Magic, this whole thing leads me to believe that those changes were intended so that they can balance the factions from the Era of Magic and integrate them in the Ageless era.

Oh and also the bug* regarding resistances seems to me like balancing the branch. if you advance to efreeti you gain 40% fire resistance but i you advance to great jinn you only get +20% arcane (going to 0 overall). and that coupled with the fact that efreeti are better in combat than Great jinn leaves you with almost no incentive to go for the Great Jinn branch.

[Kanzil]

I would definitely agree that the akladians from ANO should be added- sleepwalker has recently posted some fabulous new art for them...also the graphics for many of the factions in the EE are outdated-the aragwaithi are the primary example of this, where they are used in their FE form rather than their IftU form, which has far better sprites, another example is the chaos faction, which has, again moved on. These are probably things you'll fix in the next version, as you've only just returned to work on it, but nevertheless I thought I'd report them.

[Ravana]

Have you seen jinn in rpg game? All attacks with drain is too much, that resistance thing i noticed only later. As jinn needs a lot xp its level 4 stats are only relevant in rpg. I have NEVER seen anyone willingly take efreeti when jinn is option.

I did not mean remove all drain, just melee and always hits drain.

I agree about dispeller, it is specific unit, works only against 2 factions.

At least 1 parameter change was to fix bug, not for balance as i thought before. AlaskanAvenger told me that goblin kamikaze did not die when damage was 25, but started to work once damage was 15

Ye I agree that jinn in RPG games is really poweful I also agree that no one would pick a lvl3 unit vs lvl 4 unit in this kind of play (unless really amazing). While I do agree that jinn is easiest to be seen in RPG ,I dont think that ageless era should be balanced with regards to rpg play. There are many units that are quite imbalanced with regarding to RPG gameplay should they be changed as well? Any RPG where you can upgrade your unit will make that unit imbalanced. Of the top of my head Herbalist and Thunderstick are quite imbalanced when you give one a lot of damage upgrades and the other a huge number of ranged attacks.

Your examples have 1 range super damage, jinn has 1 range super special and 2 ranges drain.
Thunderer, IRI, Herbalist and such have only 1 range good, other one is weak.

[SiegeTank]

Have you seen jinn in rpg game? All attacks with drain is too much, that resistance thing i noticed only later. As jinn needs a lot xp its level 4 stats are only relevant in rpg. I have NEVER seen anyone willingly take efreeti when jinn is option.

I did not mean remove all drain, just melee and always hits drain.

I agree about dispeller, it is specific unit, works only against 2 factions.

At least 1 parameter change was to fix bug, not for balance as i thought before. AlaskanAvenger told me that goblin kamikaze did not die when damage was 25, but started to work once damage was 15

Yes I agree with you that jinn is quite strong in rpg game, also no one would pick a level 3 unit branch in an rpg vs lvl4 unit branch unless the units is quite overpowered. But I dont think that RPG gameplay should be the standard for balancing ageless era. There are quite a few units that are well thought and balanced in normal game and then they become extremely overpowered when you use them in RPG with upgrades. (herbalist and Thunderstick branches off the top of my head) As long as you upgrade their damage and number of attacks respectively should they be changed as well?.

I have done some tests against other lvl 4 unit combinations. and jinn seems to be at the right place in that battle.

Just a few examples I ran these tests like 5 times to ensure that random numbers are not messing up the thing:

a mystic jinn costs 1.5 times the exp of a guru. And in 3 gurus vs 2 jinns battle the gurus win. (as it should be because gurus are supposed to be effective unit not the "the most expensive and most powerful"

mystic jinn + summons master + great efreeti combination vs master of darkness + martiarch of emptiness + master of war (in this one you need the efreeti to kill matriarch because impact damage is needed) In that matchup mytic jinn+summons master + great efreeti (even the more expensive exp wise) lose durring night and win durring day. which is exactly how I expected this stand off to work out. In both cases the Mystical jinn was dead at the end). If you add one more unit for each side so that you balance the ammount of exp. (so a lvl 1 unit for al-kamija and lvl3 for tharis) this way you give them equal ammount of exp overall. And the result was similar.

Another matchup which i just decided to throw up there Kirios vs mystical jinn. You know the result:)

I also agree that those tests are not very precise but they do give you a general Idea of how to deal with jinn. (in any gameplay where you dont upgrade your units into GODs)
If you take away the drain from the mele attack and from the ranged attack I'd say they would become too squishy to be worth the experience costs. mele attack drain is their only saving grace against better units. And while it works better against multiple low level opponents once you focus the jinn he is as good as dead. (take it this way vs any strong lvl4 mele unit jinn will retaliate 2 times at most 3 that is getting 20-30 hp more due to lifesteal) add in the fact that they dont have amazing resistances (like some other units). And that most lvl 4 mele units have 80+ Hp and you have balance:)

[SiegeTank]

Sorry I kindoff modified my previous post.(My bad)

Now just for the sake of argument lets talk about RPG play. You know that you are comparing a lvl 2 (herbalist) unit to lvl 4 unit. That level 2 unit gets so much more money due to it being effective early on that it can afford to buy itself a lifesteal upgrade and as many damage upgrades as it wants. Also in most rpgs damage upgrades are cheaper so you can afford to buy 2-3 times more damage than number of attacks. Also most of ot the RPGs are not competitive they are supposed to be for cooperative play and as such balance really doesnt matter and hence you can upgrade your unit whichever it is to an OP state.

Anyways in RPG play there are only a handful of units being used and the rest are not used at all.Also there are different RPGs and for the different RPGs different things are strong or weak.
Thats why im saying that a nation shouldnt be balanced regarding to one specifc scenario but it should be balanced in general(by taking example from the default age nations. If the Defaul age was balanced for RPG play then creators of the game wouldnt have made lvl 4 Elvish sylph (which is so much better than any unit from the default age)

[Ravana]

I agree with you now, as i already plan to make creep war version i can just add few unit edits there.