Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » August 26th, 2017, 9:34 am

To begin with, fork https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Ageless-for-1-11.git and clone that to your addons folder.

Main process of adding new faction is moving unit, image and macro files to ageless(single factions I have placed under misc), and then changing unit, movetype, ability, ... ids to be different from original, and refer to ageless (AE_...). With some eras, much of it can be done with replace all. Usually, replace all is enough to add origin note to units as well.

Usually there is also need create factions for heroes and rpg.

File responsible for random factions https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... /_main.cfg

Version numbers, change them, then you wont be accidentally playing with others who use released version.
https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... ersion.lua used for version check
https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... /_main.cfg used when hosting
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Khadras » August 26th, 2017, 3:55 pm

Thanks. I tried Ageless II by UnwiseOwl idea and i add the remaining factions into ageless era but it was some errors. I want to add faction that are not in the Ageless Era from eras as follows: Anime, Art_of_War, Avian_Tribes_Race, BS_Demons, Eastern_Europe_at_War, Grafted_Era, Infantry_Wars, Lonely_Era, LOTE_Unit_Pack, Stickmen_Era, The_Golden_Age, Uber_Default, Water_Era, Wild_Era.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » August 26th, 2017, 4:25 pm

I recall Eastern_Europe_at_War asking to not be in ageless.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Khadras » August 26th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Ok.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Trayanee » August 26th, 2017, 7:16 pm

First I want to say that Ravana does great job maintaining Ageless and in recent iteration many new factions were added. I actually did some research on this a few months ago and provided my results. I play with ageless almost exclusively and would like for it, to be expanded even more, but as well I would say there should be some quality and theme restrictions on new factions being added.

But since you have done the research too, lets go through the Eras you have listed. Now that I see the wall of text I have written, please excuse all the grammar mistakes, I dont have willpower to proof read it and correct:

As for Art of War, I really like it, but I dont think that one is really compatible with classic wesnoth concept because of the non-leveling units and their stats. I dont see PvP working art of wars vs mainline-like and I really dont see art of war working in all surv/rpg scenarios.

Avian tribes - The sprite art is really below average, but not the worst. Maybe it would be worth it.

BS_Demons - Which add-on server version is this published on?

EEaW was already discussed.

Grafted Era - Halflings and Darklands should be worthy additions, the rest is mainline.

Infantry_Wars - Well, its really on Ravana but I really beg for no bazookas and assault rifles in ageless.

Lonely_Era - I only see mainline factions here without many alterations. Maybe units.wesnoth.org isnt telling full story though.

LOTE_Unit_Pack - The two distincs factions Crevalian and Draconian here have just one slightly altered sprite for all units. Please dont do it...

Stickmen_Era - I actually like this one, but the art and style just isnt compatible. Not really ageless material If you ask me.

The_Golden_Age - Well, this one is completely different beast. I really dig forest dragons work on this. Its based on mainline factions, but they are altered more than enough. The only issue is that I feel these altered factions are stronger than mainline ones just by being expanded with new units. If you want to add a mainline like era, add this one. Unfortunately on units.wesnoth.org, some factions are broken/many units not present.

Uber_Default - I dont know how I can I have missed this one. Well, its something like ageless mix. Units from default, EoM, IE, FE etc mixed and matched with some nice additions. I am not really sure about it. Some factions have like 12+ lvl 1 units which offers too much power. It is however worth going through deeply because some factions look actually mostly new/not present in ageless like for example

Water_Era - Most units already present in Ageless. Designed for watery maps, which means it would struggle vs everyone else.

Wild_Era - I see one factions without art and one with not many units. Is it broken on units.wesnoth.org?
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Khadras » August 27th, 2017, 5:03 am

Hi! Please everyone, stay calm. This modifications are for me only not to disturb Ageless Era. I asked just to know how to do it not to publish it.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Trayanee » August 27th, 2017, 7:39 am

I am as calm as it gets and I am really sorry If I sounded otherwise. I just wanted to catch on my favorite topic when the discussion arose... :)
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Khadras » August 27th, 2017, 1:45 pm

I found a formula to calculate the cost of a unit for balancing the game but is complex to calculate manual for every unit from Ageless. Any idea how to implement it into a program script to apply for all units (there are over 2750 units)?
The formula is:

Cost = ((HP * (1 + medium resistance) * (1 + medium defense) + medium damage + 2 * (movement - medium terrain movement cost)) / 4 + (number of abilities + 2 * attack types + 2 * damage types + 3 * number of poison attacks + 3 * number of slow attacks + 3 * number of plague attacks))/2

Medium resistance is arithmetic media of damage resistance (sum of resistance divided by 6 type of damage).
Medium damage is arithmetic media of damage of all weapons (sum of damage per strike * number of strikes for each weapon divided by number of weapons).
Medium defense is arithmetic media of all terrain defensive (the sum of all terrain defensive divided by 15 terrain types).
Medium terrain movement cost is arithmetic media of all terrain movement cost (the sum of all terrain movement costs divided by 15 terrain types).
Attack types = melee and range
Damage types = blade, impact, cold, pierce, fire, arcane
The rounding fractional number is made in the end of calculation.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » August 27th, 2017, 2:13 pm

While such formula will inevitably be inaccurate, you have access to that data with Lua from in game.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Khadras » August 27th, 2017, 2:20 pm

I modified factions leader lines to be able to select lvl3 leaders but the game shows lvl2 leaders for most of factions. Strange.
When i enable ageless II mod by UnwiseOwl the Ageless Era leader list are shown correct (lvl3 units).
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Trayanee » August 27th, 2017, 9:13 pm

Should you want to apply that formula to unit WMLs outside of the game, well that one could be a good start to your information science diploma as It would involve writing a lexical analyzer for WML in a scripting language of your choice. That analyzer should be based on probably LL(1) grammar/analyzer even though there are some other options of course and once thats done, its just a matter of navigating through a tree which is a nice practice in data structures. Overall, I say do it, its completely worth it...:)
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby IPS » September 7th, 2017, 7:17 am

Khadras wrote:I found a formula to calculate the cost of a unit for balancing the game but is complex to calculate manual for every unit from Ageless. Any idea how to implement it into a program script to apply for all units (there are over 2750 units)?
The formula is:

Cost = ((HP * (1 + medium resistance) * (1 + medium defense) + medium damage + 2 * (movement - medium terrain movement cost)) / 4 + (number of abilities + 2 * attack types + 2 * damage types + 3 * number of poison attacks + 3 * number of slow attacks + 3 * number of plague attacks))/2

Medium resistance is arithmetic media of damage resistance (sum of resistance divided by 6 type of damage).
Medium damage is arithmetic media of damage of all weapons (sum of damage per strike * number of strikes for each weapon divided by number of weapons).
Medium defense is arithmetic media of all terrain defensive (the sum of all terrain defensive divided by 15 terrain types).
Medium terrain movement cost is arithmetic media of all terrain movement cost (the sum of all terrain movement costs divided by 15 terrain types).
Attack types = melee and range
Damage types = blade, impact, cold, pierce, fire, arcane
The rounding fractional number is made in the end of calculation.


There is no need of a formula to calculate each unit's balance and cost efficiency. Some things must be done manually considering factions strength. Ofc, usually impopular units tends to get considerable buffs while over-used or abused ones are frequently nerfed. Isn't really hard finding OP over already balanced units or underpowered units over normal ones, also in some cases a unit can have a redesign of stats instead of a direct buff or nerf. Also, in ageless we try to not make units excesively weak to just one atack type while too resistant to others because not any faction has the correct counters for those kind of units and it's better that a unit could be eliminated even without the exploit of its main weakness.

Also, I'm the main responsable of Ageless's balance maintenance. And yup, I'm back.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » September 13th, 2017, 8:52 pm

Ravana wrote:Yokai (and Slavers) charm has formula error, which crashes wesnoth of everyone in game with them. Avoid units with charm until next release.

I released "Ageless Hotfix: Charm" modification which stops charm from crashing when host has it active. Other players are not required to have it.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby IPS » October 17th, 2017, 9:58 pm

Could be possible to add the original devlings as AE faction list?
Listed as AE - Devlings apart of the EoM - Devlings.

You can still check at previous unit stats from somewhere else and add them to faction. But I would like to to you bring them back as "another" faction in which I can care about their balance and so on.
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