Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby Shiki » June 5th, 2017, 3:51 am

Ravana wrote:try convince Shiki that devling flyer line should be stronger; should nailers have club with 2 strikes at level 2-3 too?

Unrelated to that, another idea for strengthening devlings which I had in mind for a while, what about an trait which reduces upkeep by 1 or makes upkeep free? Since the devlings have cheaper, weaker units but the same upkeep. Though quite many units would get the trait, so it should maybe weaken some stats too.
Apparently this was once intended for devlings to have a +1 upkeep trait when the devling faction consisted mostly of lvl 0s, although I'm unsure if the code for it worked.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby Ravana » June 5th, 2017, 10:46 am

For other units I have implemented lower/higher upkeep as dummy ability and upkeep= in unit_type.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby IPS » June 5th, 2017, 3:52 pm

Mmmmm... to be honest, previosly, devlings were much stronger when most of their units were lv0. The problem with the convertion to Lv1 is that you gift almost no compensation considering their extra level. People avoids building nailers because they look awful by their sight (maybe they dislike the 1 strike all times at lv2 and lv3). Also, buying a Lv1 with upkeep of 1 costing 10g ... would increase drastically upkeep.

Also, I'm not sure if you're consdering the weakned traits in devling's pricing... for example goblings are 6-3 and 18 hp but they gain one negative trait... but no upkeep... Considering that devlings gains weaker stats than mosts units... you should consider their weakened traits in their pricing...

Well, the idea I gift to Ravana was -1 upkeep all non flappers/overgrowns but increasing their price by some few coins (by +2 for now).

Also, you're at here Shiki... I was wondering that -50% factional resistance like in the case of Vampires is a bit too much (Lv1 only have extra +backstab +drains, no plague). Maybe you could lower some of their weaknesses... I have not seen any vampire side winning with good performance in Orocia.

Maybe to -10% at fire and -15% to arcane, maybe? they have no resistant units to those atack types (except gargoyle, which at simple sight looks weak to most players and some ignores them...) ... with this most vampires would be -35% factional resistance instead of -50%.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby Deciton_Reven » June 6th, 2017, 11:54 pm

My advice for the vampires problem is to let people figure out that's why the gargoyle is there. Bad players that ignore a unit because it "looks weak" isn't really something that should sway big balance changes.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby IPS » June 9th, 2017, 2:49 pm

Usually vampires have lower performance than many other factions in survivals, orocia or RPG games. Players considering gargoyles for sure they have better performance than those who doesn't. Also seriously, I've not seen any vampires player in ageless in really long ago. People after testing them they dislike the ressults and they do not use them anymore.

The problem is owning one faction which almost any unit have -50% factional resistance but no resistances to at least one type of atack. Drains+Backstab doesn't compensate that at all. It would be similar to play with skeletons with lower arcane weakness, same fire weakness and same impact weakness but no ressistances to cold, blade or pierce. Also... they are inmune to drain and plague but not to poison.

Personally, Thin bows for me are the most cost efficent units of their and people doesn't consider them that much. But still, people can actually spam blood hulks because their low XP requeriment to AMLA if I'm right (thing that for sure needs to be fixed to normal AMLA XP, unsure if this was fixed already and being the cause of their impopularity now)
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby Shiki » June 10th, 2017, 1:06 pm

Changed the vampire resistance, arcane -10% would still be fine.
The xp of hulks got increased a while back to 100. But they still have a stronger AMLA than other units, giving +1 damage.

If I compare devlings with vampires...
-> They have as well much weaknesses (or maybe comparing to thieves instead)
-> Vampires have a 40% chance to get the obedient trait (like loyal, but worsening stats a bit)
If Vampires already perform bad, well, looks like devlings need much more fixing.

About manipulating upkeep:
- I thought giving all devlings as well the obedient trait (with 40% chance), but vampires already get that AND are stronger anyway.
- Giving some devling lines (maybe Nailers line only) a must-have trait for lowering upkeep by 1. Though, this means you can limitless spam them on bigger maps again.
maybe not increasing cost as compensation?

Flappers line needs a buf, what about the Curser line?
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby IPS » June 10th, 2017, 4:11 pm

An One problem with devlings is that their non Overgrown starting leaders are weaker than most Lv2 leaders from others factions. Maybe giving an heroic trait to those could help them to perform a way better. Still, Blaphemists with heroic trait are almost as good as starting with a red mage.

Or you could mind in any trait that reinforces most non overgrown leaders options.


Also, cursers compared to archers ... are okey? it's a personal question that you have to answer you. Archers in most factions are 14-16g but have ranged damage of commonly 16 to 20 and a mele damage between 6 to 12 commonly, an average health of 28-34 commonly. Of course, depending in how high their stats are (or special cualities) it will depend in their cost.

About general cursers dunno, I find them fine but maybe costing 13g could be rasonable... spearmen are 7-3 mele, 6-1 ranged and 36 hp (and better traits). As soon as possible I will test devlings.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.17

Postby Ravana » June 11th, 2017, 12:25 pm

I plan to start release procedure tomorrow. So if something, including vampire changes, should get in, that needs action.

Given how large internal changes are in this version, there will almost certainly be another release within a month.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » June 13th, 2017, 10:20 pm

Ageless Era 4.18 is out on the 1.12 add-on server
Code: Select all
Version 4.18:
* Units and Factions
    * New era: Rashy Era
    * New faction: Blood Elves
    * New faction: Vilkai
    * Updated era: Era of Magic. This means all previous modifications and balance changes are gone.
* Graphics
    * New images for Emperors Guard and Equestrians Paladin
* Balance
    * Infernai, Fanatics, Minotaurs, Eltire, Eventide, Free Saurians, Frozen, Calydonians, Dark Legion, Emperors Guard, Steelhive, Wood Warriors, Oracles, Menagerie, Outlaws, EE Chaos, Dark Elves, Monsters, Enchanters, Holy Order, Refugees, Khthon, Phantoms, Yokai, Devlings, Vampires
* Bug Fixes
    * Swamp Explorer movement
* Other
    * Runelaying runes work for all sides now
    * Since this release, wesnoth loads Ageless that has already been preprocessed - testing showed 3x faster loading. However, if something breaks, delete Ageless_Era/ageless_4_18.preprocessed.cfg and normal loading will happen


Most important change is the last one. On my old HDD it greatly improved loading speed. However, I dont think anyone has ever tried to do this before, so let me know how it feels for you.

I hope to have 1.13 version for sometime next week, by that time you should have found most important problems with this version.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » June 14th, 2017, 12:29 am

As expected, several places got broken.

1) [foreach] not supported - fixed with 4.18a
2) Ageless not installing correctly - currently I can only say to try again, for future releases I need to look into moving images to separate addon, 72.5MiB is also getting close to server limit.

4.18a is effectively compatible with 4.18 - only [foreach] thing has changed, and if you see that, then you have more important errors than era version mismatch.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Trayanee » June 14th, 2017, 10:35 am

Download seems to work ok for me. Looking forward to giving it a a try later today.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby WeaponsPr1me » June 15th, 2017, 9:19 pm

Accelerated loading seems to work marvellously.
I've encountered some issues with the Deep Elves. First, I suppose that Tyrhai Cavalry should not be leaders due to their speed. Second, Bloodmaidens with their 7-4 attack, ability to get 'strong' trait and a situational attack boost after first kill seem to be OP for me.
Also, is Ageless' missing from units database normal?
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » June 15th, 2017, 9:25 pm

Will remove them from leaders.

7-4 is huge indeed, IPS has already said so, I just wanted to have them out as they were at least once.

Units database is from timeout changed from 60s to 20s. However, since I made ageless 4.18 load 6x faster than 4.17, it might work next week. Good to hear that you feel the difference.
Last edited by Ravana on June 17th, 2017, 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Units database works now
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » June 17th, 2017, 9:15 pm

Yokai (and Slavers) charm has formula error, which crashes wesnoth of everyone in game with them. Avoid units with charm until next release.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.18

Postby Ravana » June 21st, 2017, 5:48 pm

Given that 1.14 seems to have been delayed, main focus will remain on 1.12 for now. Next 1.12 release will be before end of next week.
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