BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v3.3.2
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
That could be a good idea!Legowarrior wrote:Well, final suggestion for the vampires, and then I'll stop beating that dead horse would be to give the hulk two attacks, like dwarf warriors, one blade and one impact... actually, that might make them a little too powerful against the undead. Never mind.
But I need time to modify it, because I need some new images and I have to wait my graphic helpers
Thanks all for your feedbacks. I'm always glad to hear your opinions
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Legowarrior
- Posts: 40
- Joined: February 10th, 2007, 9:47 pm
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
Any chance of an online list of units per side?
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
I took a quick look through the era, and here are some thoughts/comments. A lot of the new factions are still overpowered compared to the EE counterparts.
The main issue seems to be resistances and hp combination for a lot of units. Remember that in default, the only unit with high resists and steadfast is the guardsman, who has a 5-3 neutral attack (which is basically useless). And with that, it only has 20 blade/pierce/impact resist (which makes attacking with them a horrible proposition in most cases).
Minotaurs:
- mystics have 5 movement, heal +8 and cure, 9-4 magical ranged, AND 49hp? That's an insanely overpowered combination. So his attack is 7-4 magical during the day, 11-4 during the night, and 9-4 during dawn/dusk. And has high hp. a decent melee attack (9-2), and incredible hp for a mage.
There's no reason to go for the warlock that has 4 movement, 12-3 or 10-3 ranged magical, and "only" 45hp.
With their base +3 heal on almost every unit, should they even get a healer in the first place?
- Giant Eagles and Rocs are way too good because they have great movement, great defense % (50-60% on all terrain basically), high hp, and skirmish. Rocs especially. from 9-2 attack to 10-3? and a 12-1 ranged attack as well? 35hp to 50?
- lack of traits hurts since most of their base units only have 4 movement. No chance of quick.
- Centaur Knights and Rocs shouldn't be possible leaders/kings. Only units 6 movement and below!
Anakes:
- they are really dull as a faction :/ all 5 movement units. No traits. And all their attacks are really quite low compared to the others.
Initiate is a pathetic 6-3 magical (5-3 day, 7-3 night, which is useless compared to say, the default mage which is 5-3 night, 9-3 day). Hierophant (level 2) has only a 7-3 magical. and the wizard only has a 7-4.
Sharp eyes and their level 1s have really low ranged attacks and no melee attack.
On the whole, all their units have low attacks, except that 9-4 devil.
Clockwork dwarves:
- 40% blade/20impact/30pierce or 40/10/40 are way too high. Especially when combined with those healing +4 dwarves they have.
Calydonians
- No Slingers for leaders (7 movement)
- Hoplites still too good.
- Prodromoi, I'd suggest rotating their attacks so charge is 5-3 and blade is 6-3.
that way, if they get strong, you wouldn't end up with a 7-3 charge (which turns into 9-3, or 18-3 during the daytime).
The main issue seems to be resistances and hp combination for a lot of units. Remember that in default, the only unit with high resists and steadfast is the guardsman, who has a 5-3 neutral attack (which is basically useless). And with that, it only has 20 blade/pierce/impact resist (which makes attacking with them a horrible proposition in most cases).
Minotaurs:
- mystics have 5 movement, heal +8 and cure, 9-4 magical ranged, AND 49hp? That's an insanely overpowered combination. So his attack is 7-4 magical during the day, 11-4 during the night, and 9-4 during dawn/dusk. And has high hp. a decent melee attack (9-2), and incredible hp for a mage.
There's no reason to go for the warlock that has 4 movement, 12-3 or 10-3 ranged magical, and "only" 45hp.
With their base +3 heal on almost every unit, should they even get a healer in the first place?
- Giant Eagles and Rocs are way too good because they have great movement, great defense % (50-60% on all terrain basically), high hp, and skirmish. Rocs especially. from 9-2 attack to 10-3? and a 12-1 ranged attack as well? 35hp to 50?
- lack of traits hurts since most of their base units only have 4 movement. No chance of quick.
- Centaur Knights and Rocs shouldn't be possible leaders/kings. Only units 6 movement and below!
Anakes:
- they are really dull as a faction :/ all 5 movement units. No traits. And all their attacks are really quite low compared to the others.
Initiate is a pathetic 6-3 magical (5-3 day, 7-3 night, which is useless compared to say, the default mage which is 5-3 night, 9-3 day). Hierophant (level 2) has only a 7-3 magical. and the wizard only has a 7-4.
Sharp eyes and their level 1s have really low ranged attacks and no melee attack.
On the whole, all their units have low attacks, except that 9-4 devil.
Clockwork dwarves:
- 40% blade/20impact/30pierce or 40/10/40 are way too high. Especially when combined with those healing +4 dwarves they have.
Calydonians
- No Slingers for leaders (7 movement)
- Hoplites still too good.
- Prodromoi, I'd suggest rotating their attacks so charge is 5-3 and blade is 6-3.
that way, if they get strong, you wouldn't end up with a 7-3 charge (which turns into 9-3, or 18-3 during the daytime).
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
I don't know how to put it in the Official Site, do you know it?Legowarrior wrote:Any chance of an online list of units per side?
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
Minotaurs:
-Mystic: I know. I already weakened him and in the next release I'll do it again. But don't forget the Shaman costs 25
The healer is not so usefull since they already heal themselves
I'll reduce their melee attack a bit.
-Giant Eagles/Roc: The Giant Eagle costs 25, it has to be strong
However I'll modify something. What about the pierce resistance to -20%?
-Lack of traits: They HAVE traits! They CAN be quick
-Leaders: Perfectly right about ROC. I didn't notice it. Centaur Khight has 6 movements. I'll modify it immediatly!
Anakes: When a faction appairs in BEEM the first time, it can still have some "problem"
The next little release will be focused on them, they'll be a little stronger
Clockwork dwarves: I don't think so. Some testers of mine told me they are too weak. I think they aren't the easiest faction to play and they are quite strong, but not to strong. The soldier is weak to fire/cold and slow (4 movements), while the Wanderer costs 21
Calydonians:
-Leaders: Slinger has 6 movements. Gymnet and Veteran Peltast have 7 movements..
-Hoplites: Good or TOO good?
-Prodromoi: The human horseman has 9-2 becomes 25-2 during daylight, very similar to 18-3. And I checked it, it becomes 17-3, not 18-3
Thanks for your help
-Mystic: I know. I already weakened him and in the next release I'll do it again. But don't forget the Shaman costs 25
The healer is not so usefull since they already heal themselves
I'll reduce their melee attack a bit.
-Giant Eagles/Roc: The Giant Eagle costs 25, it has to be strong
However I'll modify something. What about the pierce resistance to -20%?
-Lack of traits: They HAVE traits! They CAN be quick
-Leaders: Perfectly right about ROC. I didn't notice it. Centaur Khight has 6 movements. I'll modify it immediatly!
Anakes: When a faction appairs in BEEM the first time, it can still have some "problem"
The next little release will be focused on them, they'll be a little stronger
Clockwork dwarves: I don't think so. Some testers of mine told me they are too weak. I think they aren't the easiest faction to play and they are quite strong, but not to strong. The soldier is weak to fire/cold and slow (4 movements), while the Wanderer costs 21
Calydonians:
-Leaders: Slinger has 6 movements. Gymnet and Veteran Peltast have 7 movements..
-Hoplites: Good or TOO good?
-Prodromoi: The human horseman has 9-2 becomes 25-2 during daylight, very similar to 18-3. And I checked it, it becomes 17-3, not 18-3
Thanks for your help
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
Glad to be of some help
For the Calydonians
- Err... right, the guy equipped with the sling and no melee attack.
- I realized hoplites have low terrain defense %s, so they're actually fine.
- I'll also mention that every single unit of this faction fights better on hills than forest. Maybe change the 2 barbarian units (dardanians and dioians) defenses around so they fight at 60% on forests and 50% on hills? It would make sense too since they would hire barbarians as auxilaries to support their hoplites. Balance wise,
- They desperately need a unit capable of fighting on shallow water.
For the Lavinians
- the leveled up auxilaries should probably be an option for a king/leader, unless they get +1 speed at level 2? At level 0, and 1 they have 6 movement.
For minotaurs
- Centaur knights, I didn't realize realized they lose a movement. I just assumed they had 7
Clockwork dwarves:
I think what's really making them un-useable is that their movement through sand, forest, mushroom groves, and mountains is 2 right now. It should be should be 1 just like normal dwarves.
As it is, 4 movement with 2 for those terrains is impossible to use.
Also, their healers moving at 3 rather than 4 is a complete killer. You can't possibly retreat or move them with the army properly at that speed.
For the Calydonians
- Err... right, the guy equipped with the sling and no melee attack.
- I realized hoplites have low terrain defense %s, so they're actually fine.
- I'll also mention that every single unit of this faction fights better on hills than forest. Maybe change the 2 barbarian units (dardanians and dioians) defenses around so they fight at 60% on forests and 50% on hills? It would make sense too since they would hire barbarians as auxilaries to support their hoplites. Balance wise,
- They desperately need a unit capable of fighting on shallow water.
For the Lavinians
- the leveled up auxilaries should probably be an option for a king/leader, unless they get +1 speed at level 2? At level 0, and 1 they have 6 movement.
For minotaurs
- Centaur knights, I didn't realize realized they lose a movement. I just assumed they had 7
Clockwork dwarves:
I think what's really making them un-useable is that their movement through sand, forest, mushroom groves, and mountains is 2 right now. It should be should be 1 just like normal dwarves.
As it is, 4 movement with 2 for those terrains is impossible to use.
Also, their healers moving at 3 rather than 4 is a complete killer. You can't possibly retreat or move them with the army properly at that speed.
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Rex Umbrarum
- Posts: 85
- Joined: August 9th, 2008, 3:41 pm
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
The problem is the level 1's are too weak, and the level 2's are stronger than a normal level 2 because it takes 2 advancements to get there.Kalis wrote: For the Lavinians
- the leveled up auxilaries should probably be an option for a king/leader, unless they get +1 speed at level 2? At level 0, and 1 they have 6 movement.
vivantlingvaemortvae
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Legowarrior
- Posts: 40
- Joined: February 10th, 2007, 9:47 pm
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
For the minotaurs, did you take into consideration that you will be spending less on upkeep, because of having more powerful units?
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
I'm actually wrong with regards to giant eagles and rocs.
40XP TNL is really high, so their upgrade should be as good as that.
Also, the rocs only have 40% defense on grass.
Oh, here's some more calydonian balance issues -_-;
The Calydonian Hipparchos.
53hp, 12-3 attack, 9 movement, and leadership.
Amazing attack, high hp, insane movement, AND leadership?!
Also, the Tassiarch is pretty useless, especially since the Hipparchos exist
52hp, 9-3 attack, 4 movement, no steadfast and 30% defense on grass, leadership.
My suggestion would be this:
Hipparchos:
49hp, 7-3 attack, 7 movement, leadership
Tassiarch:
56hp, 12-3 attack, 4 movement, 40% defense on grass or
54hp, 9-3 attack, 5 movement, 40% defense on grass.
That way, the hipparchos would be a quick moving leadership unit, but at the cost of attack.
The tassiarch would be slower and tougher, with a better attack.
EDIT:
ack another unit...
Minotaur Forest Raiders:
45hp, 7 movement, 9-4 melee blade attack, 7-4 ranged pierce attack, 9-2 melee impact charge attack, 7 movement, and skirmish too.
Far too versatile. Amazing melee AND pierce attack with great movement, good hp, and skirmish?!??!
At the very least, it should be something like:
45hp, 7 movement, 10-2 blade, 8-3 ranged pierce, 9-2 melee impact charge, and skirmish or
45hp, 7 movement, 13-2 blade, 7-4 ranged pierce, 9-2 impact charge, no skirmish.
And Rex Umbrarum:
I realize they're stronger, but even if a king is a bit stronger than the norm, it's not exactly overpowering since it's pretty hard to use a king offensively. Just a thought.
40XP TNL is really high, so their upgrade should be as good as that.
Also, the rocs only have 40% defense on grass.
Oh, here's some more calydonian balance issues -_-;
The Calydonian Hipparchos.
53hp, 12-3 attack, 9 movement, and leadership.
Amazing attack, high hp, insane movement, AND leadership?!
Also, the Tassiarch is pretty useless, especially since the Hipparchos exist
52hp, 9-3 attack, 4 movement, no steadfast and 30% defense on grass, leadership.
My suggestion would be this:
Hipparchos:
49hp, 7-3 attack, 7 movement, leadership
Tassiarch:
56hp, 12-3 attack, 4 movement, 40% defense on grass or
54hp, 9-3 attack, 5 movement, 40% defense on grass.
That way, the hipparchos would be a quick moving leadership unit, but at the cost of attack.
The tassiarch would be slower and tougher, with a better attack.
EDIT:
ack another unit...
Minotaur Forest Raiders:
45hp, 7 movement, 9-4 melee blade attack, 7-4 ranged pierce attack, 9-2 melee impact charge attack, 7 movement, and skirmish too.
Far too versatile.
Amazing melee AND pierce attack with great movement, good hp, and skirmish?!??!At the very least, it should be something like:
45hp, 7 movement, 10-2 blade, 8-3 ranged pierce, 9-2 melee impact charge, and skirmish or
45hp, 7 movement, 13-2 blade, 7-4 ranged pierce, 9-2 impact charge, no skirmish.
And Rex Umbrarum:
I realize they're stronger, but even if a king is a bit stronger than the norm, it's not exactly overpowering since it's pretty hard to use a king offensively. Just a thought.
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
Eheheh you are giving me some work
Ok, in this weekend I'll check everything
Ok, in this weekend I'll check everything
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
Sorry Voodoo haha. I just decided to run through ToTN with some of the new BEEM factions, and these things have been cropping up.Checking through everything would be good. The Minotaur level 3s especially. Although they don't really apply to MP, it seems like a lot of them are ridiculously uber.
The executioner at 60hp, 13-4 attack with poison is fine
But the overlord has 60hp, 11-4 melee, 9-4 ranged, and leadership which is another crazy combination.
You might also want to change the Calydonian Toxotes 4-2 attack to a 4-3 or 6-2.
a 4-2 melee attack at level 2 for an archer is just weird. 4-3 would be the same as the orcish crossbow, 6-2 would be similar to an elvish marksman.
I'm also not sure why they go from 6 movement at level 1 to 5 movement at level 2.
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
You guys do realize that you are using outdated Minotaurs... right?
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
Yes I didLegowarrior wrote:For the minotaurs, did you take into consideration that you will be spending less on upkeep, because of having more powerful units?
But playing with only 5/6 units is very hard, even if they are strong
@Kalis
-Monotaurs
Forest Raider: yeah, too strong. I changed hp from 45 to 42, blade res from 20% to 10%, impact res from 20% to 0% and the sword attack from 9-4 to 11-2
-Calydonians
Leaders: Gymnet and Veteran Peltast can’t be leader any more.
Defenses: the Calydonians' background says the Cal. are a faction strong on hills, so I can change the defenses. Every faction has an idea behind, a background (example: minotaurs have strong and expensive units, elves strong in forests, dwarves strong on mountains ecc..) and I don't want to change it
I just want to balance the factions Flying units: you are right, but the Calydonians lived in ancient Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calydon) so they can't have flying units
For this reason, their ground units are a bit stronger than normal ground units Tassiarch: I think they are good now
Hipparchos: True
Too strong. HP are now 50 (from 53) and attack 10-3 (from 12-3).I also changed the Hippikon, his attack is now 9-3 (from 10-3). Obviously, also advancements are upgraded
Hipparcos and Tassiarch are different units. They come from 2 different units (you cant "choose" which one you will have) who have different cost: the Prodromoi is more expensive so it's ok the Hipparchos is stronger than the Tassiarch
Overlord: both attack lowered
Toxotes: For now he's ok
-Lavinians
Leaders: you are right! Now Rorarius, Velite and Funditor can be chosen as leaders
-Clockwork Dwarves
movements: now Soldier, Triggerman and Greaser have 1 movement on mountains
Yeah I know, but I prefer to continue to use this version becouse the balancing for BEEM is at very good point (balancing is always relative, it depends what you're balancing. I don't know the average level of strenght of EoS, but as they are in EoS they aren't good for BEEM). And about the graphics, maybe I'm wrong, but I dodn't see much more progresses..You guys do realize that you are using outdated Minotaurs... right?
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1
Version 1.4.1 is out
The main changed are about the Anakes. They were too weak and I powered them a bit. I hope they're ok now.
I also thanks Kalis, Rex Umbrarum, Legowarrior etc. for their useful advices
Here is the changelog:
-Version 1.4.1 (01/11/2008)
- Various graphic tweaks
- Modified Lavinians
-Rorarius, Velite and Funditor can now be chosen as Leader
-Rorarius
-gladius attack: 11-3 -> 12-3
-Skirmisher
-blade resistance: 0% -> 10%
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-pierce resistance: 0% -> -10%
-Velite
-spear attack: 10-3 -> 9-3
-blade resistance: 0% -> 10%
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-pierce resistance: 0% -> -10%
- Modified Minotaurs
-Roc can't be leader any more
-Centaur Knight
-hitpoints: 45 -> 46
-Forest Raider
-hitpoints: 45 -> 42
-blade resistance: 20% -> 10%
-impact resistance: 20% -> 0%
-sword attack: 9-4 -> 11-2
-Giant Eagle
-pierce resistance: -10% -> -20%
-Roc
-hitpoints: 50 -> 47
-pierce resistance: -10% -> -20%
-Shaman
-staff attack: 8-2 -> 7-2
-Mystic
-staff attack: 9-2 -> 8-2
-Warlock
-staff attack: 9-2 -> 8-2
-Elder
-staff attack: 10-2 -> 9-2
- Modified Vampires
-Noble
-hitpoints: 48 -> 47
-fangs attack: 6-2 -> 5-2
- Modified Calydonians
-Gymnet and Veteran Peltast can't be leader any more
-Hipparcos
-hitpoints: 53 -> 50
-xiphos attack: 12-3 -> 10-3
-Epihipparcos
-hitpoints: 70 -> 67
-xiphos attack: 15-3 -> 13-3
-Hippikon
-spear attack: 10-3 -> 9-3
-Heratoi
-hitpoints: 74 -> 72
-spear attack: 12-3 -> 11-3
- Clockwork Dwarves
-Modified clockworkfootBM, clockworkarmoredBM movements
- Modified Anakes
-Damned
-hitpoints: 34 -> 35
-experience: 34 -> 32
-Daemon
-hitpoints: 46 -> 47
-experience: 60 -> 59
-Arch Daemon
-hitpoints: 56 -> 57
-Slaughterer
-experience: 84 -> 59
-hitpoints: 57 -> 59
-Massacrer
-hitpoints: 70 -> 73
-Heterodox
-cost:18 -> 17
-Imp
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Stormbringer
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Alastor
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Devil
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Fiend
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Initiate
-hitpoints: 27 -> 28
-experience: 39 -> 37
-Hierophant
-hitpoints: 37 -> 38
-Dark Prophet
-hitpoints: 51 -> 53
-Spellcaster
-hitpoints: 42 -> 43
-Wizard
-hitpoints: 59 -> 61
-Leech Rider
-hitpoints: 40 -> 41
-Leech Knight
-hitpoints: 56 -> 56
-experience: 28 -> 26
-Leech Dragoon
-hitpoints: 72 -> 74
-experience: 74 -> 70
-Sniper
-cost: 17 -> 16
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-Sharp Eye
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-Terrorbow
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
The main changed are about the Anakes. They were too weak and I powered them a bit. I hope they're ok now.
I also thanks Kalis, Rex Umbrarum, Legowarrior etc. for their useful advices
Here is the changelog:
-Version 1.4.1 (01/11/2008)
- Various graphic tweaks
- Modified Lavinians
-Rorarius, Velite and Funditor can now be chosen as Leader
-Rorarius
-gladius attack: 11-3 -> 12-3
-Skirmisher
-blade resistance: 0% -> 10%
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-pierce resistance: 0% -> -10%
-Velite
-spear attack: 10-3 -> 9-3
-blade resistance: 0% -> 10%
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-pierce resistance: 0% -> -10%
- Modified Minotaurs
-Roc can't be leader any more
-Centaur Knight
-hitpoints: 45 -> 46
-Forest Raider
-hitpoints: 45 -> 42
-blade resistance: 20% -> 10%
-impact resistance: 20% -> 0%
-sword attack: 9-4 -> 11-2
-Giant Eagle
-pierce resistance: -10% -> -20%
-Roc
-hitpoints: 50 -> 47
-pierce resistance: -10% -> -20%
-Shaman
-staff attack: 8-2 -> 7-2
-Mystic
-staff attack: 9-2 -> 8-2
-Warlock
-staff attack: 9-2 -> 8-2
-Elder
-staff attack: 10-2 -> 9-2
- Modified Vampires
-Noble
-hitpoints: 48 -> 47
-fangs attack: 6-2 -> 5-2
- Modified Calydonians
-Gymnet and Veteran Peltast can't be leader any more
-Hipparcos
-hitpoints: 53 -> 50
-xiphos attack: 12-3 -> 10-3
-Epihipparcos
-hitpoints: 70 -> 67
-xiphos attack: 15-3 -> 13-3
-Hippikon
-spear attack: 10-3 -> 9-3
-Heratoi
-hitpoints: 74 -> 72
-spear attack: 12-3 -> 11-3
- Clockwork Dwarves
-Modified clockworkfootBM, clockworkarmoredBM movements
- Modified Anakes
-Damned
-hitpoints: 34 -> 35
-experience: 34 -> 32
-Daemon
-hitpoints: 46 -> 47
-experience: 60 -> 59
-Arch Daemon
-hitpoints: 56 -> 57
-Slaughterer
-experience: 84 -> 59
-hitpoints: 57 -> 59
-Massacrer
-hitpoints: 70 -> 73
-Heterodox
-cost:18 -> 17
-Imp
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Stormbringer
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Alastor
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Devil
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Fiend
-moviment: 5 -> 6
-Initiate
-hitpoints: 27 -> 28
-experience: 39 -> 37
-Hierophant
-hitpoints: 37 -> 38
-Dark Prophet
-hitpoints: 51 -> 53
-Spellcaster
-hitpoints: 42 -> 43
-Wizard
-hitpoints: 59 -> 61
-Leech Rider
-hitpoints: 40 -> 41
-Leech Knight
-hitpoints: 56 -> 56
-experience: 28 -> 26
-Leech Dragoon
-hitpoints: 72 -> 74
-experience: 74 -> 70
-Sniper
-cost: 17 -> 16
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-Sharp Eye
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
-Terrorbow
-impact resistance: 0% -> -10%
Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4
You are wrong about the graphics... go to the CUMC SVN repository and checkout the SVN version of the EoS...Voodoo wrote: Yeah I know, but I prefer to continue to use this version becouse the balancing for BEEM is at very good point (balancing is always relative, it depends what you're balancing. I don't know the average level of strenght of EoS, but as they are in EoS they aren't good for BEEM). And about the graphics, maybe I'm wrong, but I dodn't see much more progresses..