BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v3.3.2

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Legowarrior
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Legowarrior » November 2nd, 2008, 6:01 am

As to the greek thing, I think you are wrong. You could use Pegasus riders, griffons, hippocampus, all as ideas for greek units. Or even icurus, infantry with artificial wings. It all could work with them easily and seemlessly.

Voodoo
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4

Post by Voodoo » November 2nd, 2008, 2:17 pm

Espreon wrote:
Voodoo wrote: You are wrong about the graphics... go to the CUMC SVN repository and checkout the SVN version of the EoS...
I'll check it ;)

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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Voodoo » November 2nd, 2008, 2:18 pm

Legowarrior wrote:As to the greek thing, I think you are wrong. You could use Pegasus riders, griffons, hippocampus, all as ideas for greek units. Or even icurus, infantry with artificial wings. It all could work with them easily and seemlessly.
Yeah but the Calydonians' creator, Tydeus, doesn't want to introduce mythology in his faction :)

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Darkest
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Darkest » November 2nd, 2008, 2:25 pm

Legowarrior wrote:As to the greek thing, I think you are wrong. You could use Pegasus riders, griffons, hippocampus, all as ideas for greek units. Or even icurus, infantry with artificial wings. It all could work with them easily and seemlessly.
No.
Let me introduce myself. I am the one who did the code (is this sentence correct?) for the Calydonians (and for the Anakes, too), and I know that their creator, Tydeus, wanted an historically correct faction. I tried to convince him to add mages, for example, but he didn't agreed because the greeks had no mages. We even argued a little bit because he didn't wanted to add an armour to the level 3 horses because the greeks (at the time of the poleis) didn't use armours for horses.

So, no flying units. (unless you show us a proof that the greeks used to fly)

EDIT Oh, voodoo already answered.
We came here from the holy forest of the true metal and the other eavy minerals. What do you want, my lord?
Oh, mighty proud true brave defenders from the holy forest of the true metal, we need true metal
And my lord, we will give you True Metal of Steel!

Legowarrior
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Legowarrior » November 2nd, 2008, 3:57 pm

that is unfortunate given the other forces that are i the game, but oh well, I'm not playing as that faction anyway. Although Dominions 3 had some had interest set of units that were semi realistic for there Greek knock off side.

Okay, how about priests and the like, there sure were a lot of those around at the time and who knows what they were able to do. For all we know there were many a god back then. And there was greek fire, so maybe something could be done with that.

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Quietus
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4

Post by Quietus » November 2nd, 2008, 6:57 pm

Espreon wrote:
Voodoo wrote: Yeah I know, but I prefer to continue to use this version becouse the balancing for BEEM is at very good point (balancing is always relative, it depends what you're balancing. I don't know the average level of strenght of EoS, but as they are in EoS they aren't good for BEEM). And about the graphics, maybe I'm wrong, but I dodn't see much more progresses..
You are wrong about the graphics... go to the CUMC SVN repository and checkout the SVN version of the EoS...
Even better

Though i admit i havnt done anything on them lately

Voodoo
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4

Post by Voodoo » November 2nd, 2008, 10:28 pm

Quietus wrote:
Espreon wrote: Even better

Though i admit i havnt done anything on them lately
Very good graphics!!! :)
But why don't you use them in the Era of Strife mod?

AI
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by AI » November 3rd, 2008, 1:58 am

They're in, just not released yet. (we'll do that when they're all done)

Kalis
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Kalis » November 3rd, 2008, 9:47 am

For calydonians,
in terms of balance...
I think without a mage (or "priest"), their level 1 slinger has to have marksman.

Also, for balance, they really need a water unit.
Since it's historically correct, it could possibly be a fisherman/pirate/sailor/whatever?

Or a galley in the form of the penteconter (greek ship with 1 row of oars in each side) / bireme / trireme (but artwork probably doesn't exist for that) -_-;

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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Blarumyrran » November 3rd, 2008, 7:10 pm

Kalis wrote:I think without a mage (or "priest"), their level 1 slinger has to have marksman.
And a slinger being more accurate than archers doesnt strike you as incredibly silly?

Voodoo
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Voodoo » November 3rd, 2008, 7:44 pm

AI wrote:They're in, just not released yet. (we'll do that when they're all done)
Well, than when they'll be released I'll also use them in the BEEM! :D
Thanks :)
Kalis wrote:For calydonians,
in terms of balance...
I think without a mage (or "priest"), their level 1 slinger has to have marksman.

Also, for balance, they really need a water unit.
Since it's historically correct, it could possibly be a fisherman/pirate/sailor/whatever?

Or a galley in the form of the penteconter (greek ship with 1 row of oars in each side) / bireme / trireme (but artwork probably doesn't exist for that) -_-;
Calydonians aren't the only faction who doesn't have an accurate unit (Northerners, Dwarves, Clockwork Dwarves, Lavinians ecc..) :)
About the water unit, I know they should have one, but I'm not sure that a ship would be good.... furthermore I want Tydeus to have the last word on this :)
Syntax_Error wrote:
Kalis wrote:I think without a mage (or "priest"), their level 1 slinger has to have marksman.
And a slinger being more accurate than archers doesnt strike you as incredibly silly?
Indeed... :)

Kalis
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Kalis » November 3rd, 2008, 11:47 pm

well at level 2, the toxote and slinger has marksman. If you say it that way, the whole slinger line should never have marksman.

In terms of balancing, factions without a high chance to hit get other units to take the role of breaking the enemy line..
dwarves have ulfserkers.
orcs have a triple shot poisoner to "replace" the mage.
I suppose technically, Calydonians have the neutral berserk attacking guy, but the combination of low hp, low defense %, below average resists makes them insanely hard to use in the same situations you would use an ulfserker for.

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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Voodoo » November 4th, 2008, 10:14 pm

Well, level 2/3 units can be a little.... particular.
I think that the Calydonian's Berserk is stronger than the Dwarven one :)

Kalis
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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Kalis » November 5th, 2008, 4:28 am

They don't have the toughness to use their berserk attack and survive.

26hp 5-3 berserk doesn't compare to 34hp 4-4 berserk.

8 hp is a huge difference, as is that extra attack (especially if you're fighting something on 70% defense terrain like elvish shamans or orcish assassins).
And of course, there's the resists comparison
blade/impact/pierce of 10/10/-20% vs 20/20/20

Worse movetype, and similar defense %.

Then the level 2s have 5-4 facing 7-4, 44hp vs 48, and so forth.

I suppose the main advantage is they have another attack which is their "primary" attack, but... it's not really that much of an advantage when their hp is so low it's easy to reduce their hp so that they need to run away to heal.

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Re: BEEM - Balancing Extended Era Modification v1.4.1

Post by Voodoo » November 13th, 2008, 7:34 pm

Sorry for my absence in these days.
Well, the most useful thing is, as you said, his second attack. Therefore he can survive to enemies' attacks :)

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