Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

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K4tz
Posts: 16
Joined: December 3rd, 2006, 4:16 pm
Location: Engrand

Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by K4tz »

I'm thinking of working on a faction to help me learn WML and was wondering about people's opinions on my general idea of how the faction would work.

The idea behind the faction is that it will revolve around a jack of all trades main line of units which at any point can split out into extremely specialised roles. The specialised units should be specialised to the point of being able to do their role very well and do badly at any other, hence making choosing to specialise a unit a very important decision (the specialised units cannot be converted back).

Regarding the race/background of the faction, I haven't really thought about it but I figured insects might work. They would be intelligent, capable of creating and using technology on par with the other races and saurian sized. As a general theme for the faction they should have high resistances to certain damage types (especially for the specialists), low health, high number of attacks, mediocre damage, average movement and fairly high all round defence. Preferred terrains most likely to be forests. They should be fairly cheap, maybe around northerner levels. Possibly universal teleport (burrowing).

Ideas for units:

Recruitable lines

Worker line: Recruitable at either level 0 with a blade melee and weak fire ranged (acid spray). These are the units that can jump into a different unit line at any time. I'm not sure on how the line would end if a player never specialised but I'm thinking along the lines of a Queen type unit with plague and leadership.

Another idea I have for a recruitable unit is a unit that kills itself and does high damage when attacking. A third possibility is a unit with swarm and drain. Finally, a support unit with no attacks whatsoever but an aura that gives a damage/defence bonus to friendlies and weakening effect for enemies.

Specialist lines:

Not too sure on these yet here are some ideas.

Cavalry/Scout Hunter: Not sure on how to make sure it can't be used as an all purpose melee unit but I'd like it to be more of an offensive unit than something like a guardsman.

Marksman: Would have a much improved acid spray but very weak or non existant melee.

Assassin: Skirmish + Berzerk maybe? Purpose would be for killing mages and injured units. Obviously, very low health.

Guard: An exception to the low health rule with all round high resistances. Alternatively a unit with a good defence in all terrain. Either way, should have retaliation only attacks.

Maceman: Very high damage relative to other units in the faction but no ranged and fairly low health. I'm not entirely clear on the specific role it should play other than as a generic but effective melee unit.

Flier/Village Grabber: Should be generally ineffective in combat, maybe with a weak charge attack that becomes useful at level 2 or 3.

Crippler: A line that has an effect similar to Bad Breath from Final Fantasy: lots of damaging status effects but little to no damage.


Any sort of suggestions are welcome. As I have only played Wesnoth in online games with friends I probably don't know how high level games work so I'd appreciate pointers for the stats of the units.

Weeksy
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Joined: January 29th, 2007, 1:05 am
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Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by Weeksy »

If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down

K4tz
Posts: 16
Joined: December 3rd, 2006, 4:16 pm
Location: Engrand

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by K4tz »

Thanks for the reply. When I get some time next week I'm going to make a unit tree to illustrate what I'm talking about. By the way, the faction is supposed to be composed of humanoids, similar to ants in appearance, rather than like the bugs in that thread.

TGM: Orb
Posts: 11
Joined: February 10th, 2008, 5:44 pm

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by TGM: Orb »

K4tz wrote:The idea behind the faction is that it will revolve around a jack of all trades main line of units which at any point can split out into extremely specialised roles. The specialised units should be specialised to the point of being able to do their role very well and do badly at any other, hence making choosing to specialise a unit a very important decision (the specialised units cannot be converted back).

Regarding the race/background of the faction, I haven't really thought about it but I figured insects might work. They would be intelligent, capable of creating and using technology on par with the other races and saurian sized. As a general theme for the faction they should have high resistances to certain damage types (especially for the specialists), low health, high number of attacks, mediocre damage, average movement and fairly high all round defence. Preferred terrains most likely to be forests. They should be fairly cheap, maybe around northerner levels. Possibly universal teleport (burrowing).

Ideas for units:

Recruitable lines

Worker line: Recruitable at either level 0 with a blade melee and weak fire ranged (acid spray). These are the units that can jump into a different unit line at any time. I'm not sure on how the line would end if a player never specialised but I'm thinking along the lines of a Queen type unit with plague and leadership.

Another idea I have for a recruitable unit is a unit that kills itself and does high damage when attacking. A third possibility is a unit with swarm and drain. Finally, a support unit with no attacks whatsoever but an aura that gives a damage/defence bonus to friendlies and weakening effect for enemies.

Specialist lines:

Not too sure on these yet here are some ideas.

Cavalry/Scout Hunter: Not sure on how to make sure it can't be used as an all purpose melee unit but I'd like it to be more of an offensive unit than something like a guardsman.

Marksman: Would have a much improved acid spray but very weak or non existant melee.

Assassin: Skirmish + Berzerk maybe? Purpose would be for killing mages and injured units. Obviously, very low health.

Guard: An exception to the low health rule with all round high resistances. Alternatively a unit with a good defence in all terrain. Either way, should have retaliation only attacks.

Maceman: Very high damage relative to other units in the faction but no ranged and fairly low health. I'm not entirely clear on the specific role it should play other than as a generic but effective melee unit.

Flier/Village Grabber: Should be generally ineffective in combat, maybe with a weak charge attack that becomes useful at level 2 or 3.

Crippler: A line that has an effect similar to Bad Breath from Final Fantasy: lots of damaging status effects but little to no damage.


Any sort of suggestions are welcome. As I have only played Wesnoth in online games with friends I probably don't know how high level games work so I'd appreciate pointers for the stats of the units.
Hm, just thinking about it:

The worker line idea is interesting,

Suggestions (1):

Base unit:
(faction name here) Worker
The majority of an (insert faction name here) society in peacetime are workers, who have little martial training and are mostly used in menial tasks. However, they are intelligent and capable of adapting to any specialised role in war in a very short time. En masse, they can bring down even powerful opponents, but individually, they are nothing to fear.
Level 0, no special qualities
Low health, decent fire ranged + melee blade attack (for its level), resistances: cold -10, arcane/impact 0, pierce/blade 10, fire 20, above average defence in woods, otherwise normal defences, fairly low XP requirements

Advance to: any specialist line level 1, Arms Bearer

Arms Bearer
If there is little need for a specialist when a worker has gained the experience needed to specialise, they may take the role of a supplier for other troops, carrying spare weapons and bandages for any nearby soldiers. While still able to adapt quickly to a situation, they can provide more benefits to the army as a whole than an unspecialised worker.
Level 1, Leadership (only applies to workers), Medic (neighbouring units can't be poisoned)
Low health, decent fire ranged + melee blade attack (for its level), resistances: cold -10, arcane/impact 0, pierce/blade 10, fire 20, above average defence in woods, otherwise normal defences, fairly low XP requirements

Advance to: any specialist line level 2, Overseer

Overseer
Experienced and capable workers may gain a degree of authority over other soldiers and workers, and usually relay the leader's orders to these. Even at this stage, they may still specialise, but they generally continue to act in a supervisory role.
Level 2, Leadership, Medic (neighbouring units can't be poisoned)
Low health, decent fire ranged + melee blade attack (for its level), resistances: cold -10, arcane/impact 0, pierce/blade 10, fire 20, above average defence in woods, otherwise normal defences, fairly low XP requirements

Advance to: any specialist line level 3, Queen

Queen
Level 3, Leadership, Medic (neighbouring units can't be poisoned), Plague
Low health, decent fire ranged + melee blade attack (for its level), resistances: cold -10, arcane/impact 0, pierce/blade 10, fire 20, above average defence in woods, otherwise normal defences, fairly low XP requirements

A universal burrow probably couldn't be balanced very easily, so perhaps make that cavalry/scout hunter into a burrower. Would seem like a good way to ensure that it can be easily used against those and generally escape. More ideas to come later.

michchar
Posts: 77
Joined: March 21st, 2008, 8:29 pm

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by michchar »

I like the idea of extremely specialized units, but there appears (notice I said "appears") to be bias toward insect factions, so you have to explain why this faction should be in wesnoth/what wesnoth is lacking without this. making extremely specialized units would add an extra element of strategy though. I think that since this is an insect faction (therefore a faction of nature) their weapons should just "evolve" and all the level ups should have similar weapons to their predecessors.

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Neoskel
Art Contributor
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Joined: November 27th, 2007, 5:05 am

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by Neoskel »

michchar wrote:I think that since this is an insect faction (therefore a faction of nature) their weapons should just "evolve" and all the level ups should have similar weapons to their predecessors.
What if it is just an insectoid race?

K4tz
Posts: 16
Joined: December 3rd, 2006, 4:16 pm
Location: Engrand

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by K4tz »

Evolution doesn't happen within an animal's lifetime >_> I can see how that might work if the units were swarms of insects, but they're not. It would make more sense if levelling up corresponded with the insects growing and getting stronger (as well as getting more skilled).

To make it clear, the race being composed of insects isn't concrete yet, it was just an idea which seemed like it could work.

michchar
Posts: 77
Joined: March 21st, 2008, 8:29 pm

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by michchar »

ok, maybe they didnt evolve, but still, when they level up, it could be like growing past a new stage (ex. caterpillar-->butterfly. they arent very much alike [in looks] but the caterpillar didnt evolve.)
also, elvish shamans had the heal ability, but if you make them druids, they lose that. in a real life scenario, they would still have heal. therefore, i conclude that Wesnoth is not real

K4tz
Posts: 16
Joined: December 3rd, 2006, 4:16 pm
Location: Engrand

Re: Theoretical Faction: Insectoids (maybe)

Post by K4tz »

More ideas on how the specialists work:

Scout hunter: Possibly the only unit with burrow (teleport). Fairly low hp but firststrike and strong pierce damage. Maybe a special which deals more damage to units with more than 6/7 movement points.

Marksman: Low resistance to melee damage types, average-good resistance to pierce, good resistance to cold and fire. Maybe a special which causes it to have higher resistances when fighting ranged.

Assassin: Nightstalk?

Guard: Special which increases resistances when defending. Low damage but special that dramatically increases retaliation damage? Counterstrike?

Crippler: Starts with many attacks that each do different status effects but as it levels up they add together to become one attack. Single, relatively weak, charge attack so levelling it up becomes viable?

Maceman: Change to generic high offense unit. Merge with flier and add weak ranged attack (village grabber role separated into a recruitable unit). Special which causes it to do more damage/take less damage when attacking?

Village grabber: Recruitable level 0 flier with poor stats aside from movement all round. Maybe could level to a level 1.

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