Tamers updated 12/16/2007 v0.3.1 - your feedback desired

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deoxy
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Tamers updated 12/16/2007 v0.3.1 - your feedback desired

Post by deoxy » December 5th, 2007, 3:33 pm

v 0.3.2
More work on the campaign - see thread referenced below!

v 0.3.1
No faction changes, but added and significantly extended the Endless War campaign. See this thread for details: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15200

v 0.3.0
No major changes (wisp changes as discussed below, added graphics for Veteran and Great Spear), but I removed all the EE stuff from it and just referenced the actual Extended Era (so it won't work without it). I also put in era to reference the Era of Myths, the default era, and all combinations of the above (yes, 7 eras in total). Also, note the wiki link below!

v 0.2.0
OK, I've attempted to balance the faction a little more, and I've added some new units:

Warrior unit tree: replaces the generic spearmen, fairly similar to it - has a custom graphic! Go me! (Ok, it's mostly frankensteined, I admit it.)

Wisp: exploration of a concept, open to LOTS of suggestions on this one. It has the right feel of what I want right now, but I'm sure the balance is quite wrong.

Hydras: added Swarm to the bite attack and the fire breath attack (cutting off heads, you know). This turned out to be perhaps TOO much of a nerf, but it gives a good feel. Need help balancing.

Slime puddles: got a little more movement; their purpose is primarily to sit on villages (level 0, so no upkeep, with high resistances and low damage output), but I've been thinking of just dropping them altogether.

I renamed the Trainee to Hunter (makes more sense, I think) and nerfed the crap out of it. I did leave Cunning on the barbed net attack (80% chance to hit on offense), but I only gave it 1 attack (and it stays 1 at higher levels). I also dialed back the bolo a bit. I've found that they are reasonably survivable, pretty good at slowing things, but hard to level (because they just don't do much damage AT ALL).

I made some minor changes to the Hatchlings, but there's probably more still to do. The Noble Hatchling probably still costs too much, for instance...

but if I don't get this out there and get some more comments, I'm not sure I'll ever get around to finishing it.

Oh, and I story-boarded a campaign for it. Yay.

original thread here: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17280

(Yes, the dragons and hydras all still have the same graphics. Sorry, I've tried some more to make a dragon sprite that I like, and well, I just plain suck at it. Getting closer, though.)
Last edited by deoxy on December 23rd, 2007, 12:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ken_Oh
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Post by Ken_Oh » December 6th, 2007, 6:29 pm

I would ask if you meant to put this in the original thread, but I see you linked to it.

deoxy
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Post by deoxy » December 6th, 2007, 7:04 pm

Personally, I hate wading through posts about stuff that has already been changed, etc, and there have been some fairly extensive changes, so I just started it fresh and linked to the old one.

Any comments on the actual material?

I have considered removing the slime puddle line completely (I might make them and Wisps summonable by Seers, if I get up the energy to wade that deeply into the WML) and adding the ability to recruit Adult dragons (level 2, and VERY expensive), as having a larger dragon around makes hatchlings a lot more viable (in my testing, I find that none of the other choices compare to having a Dragon leader for this reason and others), but recruiting levels twos (at any price) seems to be a generally frowned-upon practice.

For that matter, I might make Wisps level 1 and manually set their upkeep to 2 (or even 3?). Also, perhaps Wisps need to lose ZOC? I really need some help on issues like that, if someone has the time.

One other thing I considered for Wisps was removing all of their resistances, giving them 1 HP (yes, ONE), and giving them 100% defense everywhere... basically, you'd need magic, marksman, etc, to hit them, but when you did, they go away. If I did that, I'd probably need to seriously nerf their attack power (make a 1-1, or something else really weak). This is rapidly becoming radically different from the Wisp I've got now, but if I bumped thier movement a bit (say, 10 instead of 7), it really might fit the feel I'm going for better, anyway. I don't know. Just putting down all the different thoughts I've had.

I was also thinking of putting "Loyal" into the general mix of traits available for Hatchlings, but I don't think that would work very well for skirmish (in most cases, it would basically be a complete loss).
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Post by Weeksy » December 7th, 2007, 2:47 am

deoxy, giving the wisps 100% defence anywhere would mean that 2/6 default factions couldn't kill them. You would just swarm them and slowly eat away at the enemy.
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Post by scienceguy8 » December 7th, 2007, 4:20 am

Read carefully, he said Wisps would have only 1 HP.
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Post by Weeksy » December 7th, 2007, 4:51 am

yes, but not being able to be hit by factions that don't have marksman/magical means that no damage will be dealt. If I have a 0% chance to hit you, that means nothing I do will hit. you could have 1 hp, you could have 10000 hp, and I won't be able to do any damage, because I'm a dwarf/orc and can't do any magic.
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Post by deoxy » December 7th, 2007, 5:58 pm

You know, I hadn't stopped to think if there were factions with absolutely no access to magic or marksman attacks, but you're right... that just wouldn't work because of that (which is both odd and annoying). Of course, I'm adding this to the Extended Era, not the default, but I expect there's still at least one faction with the same problem.

Not that I'm good enough at WML yet, but maybe they could have 100% defense during the day, 80% defense and dusk/dawn, and 50% defense at night? Something like that might work.

What I've got now is fairly workable, too, though, so I'll probably not mess with it too much until other issues are resolved.

I do think I need to remove the ZOC from the wisp - probably make it level 0, give it a level 1 to go to (with ZOC, but not much upgrade otherwise), set the upkeep a bit higher than normal (2 for both level 0 and level 1), and lower its attack power a little. I could probably dial the cost down a little that way, too (25 is just too expensive to see much use at all).

Any comments on anything else? I like constructive feedback!
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Post by Ken_Oh » December 7th, 2007, 6:06 pm

Giving a unit 100% terrain defense will make their in-game defense 50%. Of course, you could always just set it at 99% and hope that no one will try to beat the odds.

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Post by deoxy » December 7th, 2007, 8:23 pm

Ken Oh wrote:Giving a unit 100% terrain defense will make their in-game defense 50%. Of course, you could always just set it at 99% and hope that no one will try to beat the odds.
Really? How very strange... I suppose 0% chance to hit caused some kind of problem in the code, and this was the solution, but I would think it would just set back to 99%, anyway.

Thanks for the info!
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Post by deoxy » December 10th, 2007, 7:01 pm

Yay, I started a wiki entry for this faction! Still a work in progress, but I'll try to get it finished out this week.

http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Tamers
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Post by FireMaster » December 10th, 2007, 8:50 pm

Actually,just give poacher (knalgans) marksmen and add Orcish Shaman to the Northerners recruit list.
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deoxy
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Post by deoxy » December 11th, 2007, 2:57 pm

deoxy wrote:Yay, I started a wiki entry for this faction! Still a work in progress, but I'll try to get it finished out this week.

http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Tamers
Bloody crap, this is time-consuming! I'm about halfway through the units (11/24), but I'll still have abilities, weapon specials, traits, races, AMLAs, and move types. Ouchie.

All this, and it will probably never amount to anything... joyful. I'm insane.

Edit: I added everything I could remember, at least in skeletal outline format (much quicker than actually checking each file). The move-types and the entire Hatchling line of units aren't there at all except for their titles, but everything else at least has a summary. Enjoy! (And give me some feedback, eh?!?)
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deoxy
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Post by deoxy » December 17th, 2007, 5:13 pm

deoxy wrote:Yay, I started a wiki entry for this faction! Still a work in progress, but I'll try to get it finished out this week.

http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Tamers
Wiki completed!

(OK, except for all the movetypes... but it's so ridiculously long already!)
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